Transcript
Please note that transcripts are automatically generated by artificial intelligence so may not be 100% accurate.
“SPEAKERS
Baz Moffat, Catie Friend
Catie Friend 00:02
Hi, welcome to chatting to a friend. I'm Katie Friend. And in this podcast I'm chatting to incredible women about their life experiences and adventures, as well as their thoughts on friendship, community self care, setting boundaries and how they keep healthy, happy. unsane. Boss Moffitt is a former Great Britain roar a bronze medalist in the 2007 world championships, a mother of two former personal trainer and a specialist in pelvic floor health, as well as that she's recently teamed up with Dr. Emma Ross and Dr. Bella Smith to create the well, HQ. And in this conversation, we talk about everything that is women specific training, and you might have an idea of what you think this conversation is going to sound like. But a lot of it was absolutely not the conversation I thought I was going to have with her. It's brilliant. So interesting. So fun. We talk about everything from sport at school, to birth stories, to pelvic floor via menopause, sports bras periods, how the men in our lives can support women, as much as women can support themselves. It's just so so vital. If you are a woman who trains or does sport, if you are a man, or a woman who trains or coaches, girls or women, or if you have daughters, this is a must listen, I cannot overstate how important the work is that these three women are doing as being one of them. And I just love this conversation. So so much. I hope you enjoy. Hi, Bob. Thanks for joining me today. How are you? I'm really well thank you. Awesome. No, I am always excited to speak to my guests genuine, actual excitement. But today I'm particularly excited because I have been caught up in everything that you've been doing with the well HQ with Dr. Emma Ross and Dr. Bella Smith. And we're gonna come on to that because it's just, it's completely blown my mind as I'm sure it has for a lot of people, which as we'll also come on to it shouldn't have been.
Baz Moffat 02:24
What I want to just do a little bit of background on you because you are, amongst other things, a former GB rowing squad for our medal winner World Champion medal winner. Yeah, it feels like a very long time ago now I even when I was growing on the telly, I'm like how did I do that? But yes, back in the day, I was one of those rare lists and that you always had a quite a sporty childhood I think us I've read that you were sort of A for effort type was kind of always battling through. I tried so hard as for I absolutely loved it. I didn't come from a sporty family at all. But for me, sport was my leveller like I really, as a child, I didn't really feel like I fit it in anywhere. Do you know I kind of like fell out but definitely wasn't in the call group at school. But I felt that sport was the place where I could really just truly be me. And so I absolutely adored it. And from a really young age, you know, I was obsessed with the Commonwealth Games and the you know, and the Olympics and college active Sarika node and lympha Christi, that kind of era and they were just all so inspirational. I've always had this dream of being an international athlete, how did you go from sort of, you know, you by your own admission, not being, you know, one of the best of the fastest, really like putting yourself to because, you know, I'm not a rower, but my dad stroke the Cambridge blue boat back in the day. So I know from just from the stories that that's a brutally hard sport, like, I mean, all sport is hard. But that's a it was not it was not predictable that that's, you know, like, I think that if you were doing any talent ID programme, I don't think I'd have qualified for any of them whatsoever. And it was more I didn't start, I'd love sport, as I said, my entire life. So I've done everything, you know, every single school team, I just was always doing sport. And then I decided that that that international ship had sailed as it were, and you know, when you're 21, and you think, Oh my god, I'm so old now I really need to get used to get serious now but as and you need to, you know, sort of decide what you're going to do. So I then went down the corporate route and you know, sort of doing graduate jobs. And I just hated them. I was so disillusioned by them and I couldn't quite believe that this was what life would be. It was like is this honestly like what I've been working so you working hard at school for when and how the university for is I cannot see this being my life. So it wasn't as though I I decided, Okay, I want to be an international athlete. Now. It was more like, you know, I just I just went back into sport and I chose rowing because it wasn't going to be rowing on that board. It was kind of I want the rowing got it because it was outside it would that was literally it was like, I just wanted to be part of a team. And like, I want to learn something new, I want to do something totally different. And I just kind of just loved it and hate it. And I'd love growing more and hated work more, it just became more apparent that maybe I could give it a go. And I just thought, you know what, I've got absolutely nothing to lose. If I take what I decided to do was take a gap year what I consider a gap year, kind of at the age of 24. And I went over to Australia, and I trade with an amazing squad over there. And I just decided, right, I'm gonna throw everything into this. And if it's a total disaster, no one knows. Because I'm under the radar. No one in the UK knows I'm doing this or like, this is the plan. So I can go over there, I can mess up, I can fail, I can have a completely disastrous experience. But also, there's a real freedom to that, you know, I can just see how good can I be. And I kind of the Australian system was so incredible. I've got amazing opportunities that have been I, when I came back to trial in the UK, I was better than I thought I was. And it just kind of was a no brainer to really go for the squad.
Catie Friend 06:11
Because it's quite incredible that you say, you know, you had, you said what 21 I thought my life was over. But that's quite late to take up a sport especially like rowing because there's a lot of technique that people learn super early on, it's a bit like skiing, if you learn early, you've got the kind of innate
Baz Moffat 06:27
i wasn't technically very good people with a lot better technique. I was a rough diamonds when it hit the technical side. But I had absolute determination. And I and I made sure that like the areas where I could be better. I nailed all the peripheral stuff, you know, like I was like, obsessed with nutrition obsessed with recovery. Obsessed with psychology, I got so into the psychology of team and like how to get the best out of myself. But how I realised quite quickly that if I'm in a boat, I have to make sure that everyone in that boat is like on form. So I have to work out like how to get the best out of that team. Because otherwise I am not going to be a good member too. I kind of thought I I was technically good enough, I was physiologically good enough, but like on the edge of both of those things, not like outstanding at all, like good, but not amazing. So I've just had to make the most of everything else. Yeah, because you came you came to us with a degree a first class degree, I hasten to add in sports science. Also, with that background of always playing sport your whole life. You know, so there, I'm super interested to hear that all that stuff that people consider, as you say peripheral stuff had made such a huge impact or addition to what you were attempting to do. Because I just knew that I was, you know, like you said, there were girls who've done it at school, the big girls that were doing it for years. And their technique was amazing. It was just it was just their muscle memory was outstanding. And the first thing of coach said to me was like hold your knees, which is a classic, you know, rowing term, I just coded these. And it was the last thing they said to me when I retired, it was something that I knew that technically, regardless of the fact that I was working, working working at it, there were other areas which I could really exploit. And those are just, you know, you go to the areas where you know, you think you can make the biggest difference. So from there, you went on to win a medal at the World Championships. And then what kind of went on because there's a sort of a phase after that, where you, you know, you said that you, your mind over matter. You're sort of battering through working as hard as you could using all the sort of peripheral things. And then you said life changed a little bit when you had your kids and that didn't work anymore. Yeah. So I retired from sport in 2008. And I actually didn't get selected for Olympics. So the year before was 2007. And I was on the podium with the aid and we qualified the boat, but in rowing, you qualified boat, but you don't qualify the people.The boat was off to Beijing, and it was just it wasn't quite sure who was going to be in that boat. And unfortunately, I'd always be on the edge of the squad. I'd always been that late last week, more or less. And then in and in 2007 every single decision went my way by an absolute margin. And in 2008, every decision went against me by exactly the same margin and I was just pushing against the tide and it just was never going to work. So I didn't get selected. And I retired and then I kind of was 30 so I knew I had to find a partner if I'd haveto get my life back to where I want it to be. So I and then I got married and and got pregnant and and I just and I approached pregnancy because physically my body had never let me down so physically, whatever I asked my body to do it Not instantly, but if I applied myself then I could do pretty much anything. So after I retired from sport, I did some ultra marathons, I did some ridiculous swims, I, and I just kind of did it, you know, if I had to trade, but I did it and I just I just thought pregnancy is going to be the same. I just thought, well, I got pregnant quite easily. My pregnancy was fine. birth, women give birth all over the world. I am physically better than them. Honestly, I was so arrogant with what I'm physically better people tell me it's like a 2k rowing test, which is kind of a fitness test to do in between. So I'll just keep on pushing, because that's the approach that has worked for me. And, and it was just an absolute disaster. Like it was an absolute disaster. And, and it really, really, that birth experience had like, really long lasting impression on me. And I just couldn't believe how how hard it was and how the tools that I had relied on in the past just didn't just didn't work for me. And because I was alive, and my baby was alive. And I didn't have postnatal depression. No one cared like everyone was. And also, I didn't care. Like I didn't even mention it. I just knew that I felt awful. But I was like, well, no one seems bothered. So maybe this is just what life is like as a new mum. And then I got pregnant again really quickly. And then sort of five months. And I was I was petrified. I was genuinely petrified of having the how this baby was going to come out of me. And I remember talking to my midwife and saying, I just left Can you just tell me that I need to have a C section and that someone will just almost put me to sleep and then wake up and they'll be a baby. I just cannot there's nowhere and go through like what I've recently gone through. And she she was amazing. And she sat down with me. And she said, You need she was a rower actually, which really helped. So I knew she understood me. And that was, you know what my mentality was? She said, Look, let's, let's look at what happened with your body. And she said, but this is what happened. And this is why you reacted that way. I honestly think you'll be you're brilliant at giving birth. I'm like, how can you say that? How can you say it was the worst experience ever. And she said no. Like you, what you don't understand is that you have to give your body the environment in which it can truly perform and you didn't give it that environment. And she said that birth is not an emergency situation is not a situation, which needs to be adrenalized. Like you can't be pushing and pushing and pushing, especially if it's taken two days to get these babies baby out. And so it just made me stop and realise that actually, the hormones in our bodies are the best painkiller. And if you work with them, as opposed to against them, and working with them means tapping into your female energy is a hard thing to do when you're used to having quite a male approach to your energy and a male approach performance. And I kind of went with it. And I did it. And honestly, it was extraordinary. It was absolutely amazing. My second baby, like literally whoosh out of my body. And it was the most amazing physical thing I had ever done. And it was the moment that he came out. I was like, Oh my god, I get it, I get what what this flow state is I get what it is to truly connect to every single thing in your body and produce something amazing. And I just wish I'd had the confidence to do that. As an athlete, I just wish I'd had the confidence to kind of not just try to fit into a system but try and really tap into me, which I haven't really done to its full potential.
Catie Friend 13:37
Oh my gosh, there's so much there. I love a birth story. And so just before I go, I want to go on to that sort of flow state and, and, and really delve into all that stuff about understanding yourself as a woman and everything. But what just to sort of clarify what was it that was so awful about the first one you say you're pushing and pushing, like physically actually pushing or talk to me a little bit about what you mean?
Baz Moffat 14:04
Yeah, so it was it was was one of those unfortunate situations where I like my my waters had broken, but I hadn't I wasn't in labour. So often, my waters are broken on like a Wednesday afternoon. And then as if roll, if you haven't had your baby within 24 hours, then they need to induce you. And I haven't had my baby within 24 hours, but then they were busy. And so I just kind of got abandoned on this life on this random ward in this hospital where my contractions started, which was like 36 hours after my water had broken. And, and because I was on my I was totally on my own. And I had never, I think Yeah, one of these. This is why we're so passionate about the work that we do now is that that was the first time I had ever been exposed to any kind of birth experience. Like I had never seen a friend do it. I've never talked to people about it. No one had ever told me about it. And I was up on this word.in such pain, and it was because my baby was like the wrong way round. But people just was people were walking past and it felt like they were laughing at me and they weren't laughing at me. They were just smiling. But in that moment, I thought, they're laughing at me. And they were like, oh, you're not having your baby here. You need to get down on delivery sweet, but we haven't got space for you. So it was, and I am having my baby, like right now. But then I'll know, other people said you can't have it here. So it was and when you're in labour is so intense that you can't you can't advocate for yourself in that moment you are you're fully consumed by what's happening to your body. And I was in such pain and the contract instead of normally, when you go to any birthing class, they say, you have a contraction, and then you have this level, and it all comes off and you have this lovely time to relax. I have no time. It was like, there's a contraction. And then there was intense pain, and it was an attraction and there was intense pain. And so it was just unrelenting. And then they came up said, Would you like some paracetamol and I literally was literally screamed, and I was like, I just felt that I was totally misunderstood. No one knew what I was experiencing. And then by the time that I did get down, it was like, Oh, my God, how is this woman got to this day, it was just panic stations. And, and, you know, I then yeah, I was really motivated to go and help women after that experience. And, and I was the NHS are brilliant at keeping you alive. And they are brilliant at life and death situations. And I felt that although if I had to get into that place until they wouldn't listen to me, and unfortunately,there wasn't the capacity to care for me in a non emergency way. And that was just really, really unfortunate, because it massively affected me and I had to have quite a lot of therapy, which I didn't have I delay having because I didn't even realise it was okay to have that to process that experience. Well, I so much of what you said rings true for me. I was already had it the opposite way around. I had a really amazing birth first time. And so swanned into the second birth going well, I'm a total badass at this, and had almost exactly the same experience as you. And and I ended up with a C section because it was all just like suddenly the surgeon appeared and was like, How the hell has this left to this stage? And I wasn't even in the UK, but I for that one. But no, I totally get it. And it is traumatic. But he said to me, after they said to me, they wanted this baby. My baby had arrived. They were like, oh, did you have pain relief? I said no. And like, that was physically not possible. What you have just done? I'm like, Well, I is because I've done it. But I'm bust that. Yeah, it was horrendous.
Catie Friend 17:45
I feel I feel I feel for you, because induced labour is something I would never want to wish on anyone without certainly without pain relief. Anyway. So and then. So then you got into you got therapy, and you had this amazing midwife. And you realised as you said that, really when you get into your female energy, and you which is how I felt in my first birth, I just I felt so empowered. And it wasn't it didn't turn out as exactly in terms of where I wanted to have the baby, but I totally get what you mean that just that feeling of this is what my body was meant to do.
Baz Moffat 18:23
Yeah. And that was that was I wanted a home. But by the sounds of things, you know, might have been a similar situation. I didn't end up having one. But I didn't get into hospital until the end. Like I literally my baby arrived within 20 minutes of me arriving.But they were and they didn't care likeI was conscious about this is embarrassing. I'm making noises I don't want anyone to hear I was conscious of all that. I literally arrived at Chelsea and Westminster hospital at Karpov seven. And, and I was like, I was doing all the noises. And I was with it. And they and they said, Oh, you can't have your baby here. And like, this is not my problem. If you don't want me to have my baby in reception, then you get around to everything was hanging out.At this baby's coming, like I'm going with it if you want to get me into a room, and then you do that, but I honestly don't care. And that was just because I was so in tune with what was happening and where my baby was. And the amazing thing with that second birth was I pushed and I could feel and I could feel this baby coming that second birth. I couldn't feel any apart from ridiculous amounts of pain. I couldn't feel anything. And that's why that's where the disconnect was.
Catie Friend 19:33
Yeah, no, is it absolutely I had a similar thing when, when my son was born, he was my first and suddenly I got to the pushing stage. And I said, you know, I'd never had a baby before. I said, I think this baby's coming. Because I'd started to do the noise. And they were like, um, can you can you wait? Can you wait till 930 and I said What time is it? Nine o'clock. Eh no! Thinking, Surely you're the professional here, you know that when a woman starts making that noise, she's having an actual baby like, right now. And they're like, well, this isn't the right room and I was.like I'm having this baby right now. Anyway, so yes, I totally, I'm with you on many of those elements. So what? After you'd had your babies and you'd been through this therapy, and you thankfully got this view of Exactly, yeah, how your body was supposed It was designed to work? And what what did that apart from hopefully healing some of the trauma of the first birth and having two beautiful, healthy babies? What? What did that change for you going forward professionally and so on?
Baz Moffat 20:54
It, it made me want to go deeper with women. And it may so I'd been when I retired from rowing, I went into personal training, and I kind of enjoyed it. I had a very successful personal training business. But there was something missing. And after that second birth experience, I was like, I, I get now what, how we need to help women and we need to go deeper. And we need to help them connect with that with who they truly are. And that's when I started to kind of really get into the pelvic floor and the pelvic health side of things, primarily because of my birth experience. But then, because the pelvis, even though men have a pelvic floor, the pelvic floor is is, you know, fundamentally, you know, it's more important for women, because they're not the Dinos, they have babies, and they go through menopause, which those which men don't, and that's why we were more likely to have more susceptible to have issues with our pelvic health. And I just thought, you know, I was reading about it and talking with friends, I was like, this is a barrier, this is a massive barrier to women being active. And it's a massive barrier for women to potentially succeeding in sport as well. And I just thought I can, we can, I can help them with their fitness, but starting from something that's really fundamental to being a woman, and so I started just being a pelvic floor coach, and I would take a woman, you know, ultimately, what I wanted to do really was help them with their pelvic floor, and then help integrate their pelvic floor into their training programme, wherever that might be, and then hand them over back then all personal trainers have after their normal classes, or their or their sports programme, and not really stick with them for ages, because I kind of like to fix problems. So I was I would rather someone came to me and said, right, we are on this for six weeks or three months. And then that's the focus. And then we're off, as opposed to just working with someone, you know, week in week out on a normal sort of PT scenario. That's what I did. After Well, I'm not I'm doing less than that I'm doing much more talks and all that kind of jazz, but like that's what I did for the last six years. So my aim was that I want to do this for six years until my my youngest gets into reception. He started reception in September. And I just knew that at that point, I wanted to be in a position where I could do something bigger, and I had no real. There wasn't like a linear progression. I just had this belief that when you know when Cooper's at school, I want to be in a place where I can really take this work into a much bigger space and meet and reach a much bigger audience. And it all just kind of just kind of happen. But but it did. AndI just I just spent six years learning my craft and working with all different types of women. And the more I got into it, I am saying the same things over and over and over again. And, you know, I work with women, you know, recently who suffered with sexual abuse, I worked with young athletes, I worked with lots of pregnant women, obviously, postnatal women, lots of women who had gynaecological surgeries. And there are people like that. I'm not the only one doing this. There are plenty of people did this, but there's not that many. And there's not that many that can kind of take this really holistic approach to it. And also give women the belief and be positive and say, right, this is where we're starting. It's 100% of that where you want to be, but I've got a plan to get you into a better into a better place.
Catie Friend 24:17
And you said what you said you're saying the same things. What are those same things
Baz Moffat 24:22
that you're saying that you constipated?Literally, honestly, I have that conversation. All the time with we made like about clothes debated the constipation chat. And that was a big that was like just a classic, you're more likely to be constipated. But because you're a woman, and as you age, you are more likely to get constipated. But it's also throughout your menstrual cycle. There might be times when you are more constipated because because of progesterone, like it's it slows down your digestion. So it is less than it is when progestogen is low, your digestion is slower thanWater is taken out of your soul as it's travelling around your gut. But what it means is that if you think of your pelvis, you've got your bladder, your bowel at the back, and you've got your womb, your uterus in the middle and your bladder at the front. If you are constipated, it essentially means a stool in your bowel, which you haven't excrete it is taking up space within your pelvis. So it's more likely that you will have you will, you will leak urine because you're kind of like pressing on that bladder. The first reason and the second reason is if you're constipated, and we've all been constipated at some point in our life, you know that you have to strain to excrete. And that puts huge amounts of pressure on the pelvic floor. Oh, it stretches the pelvic floor, that beyond where it should be going. So if you're chronically in that state is not great. And it also massively increases your risk of prolapse. And it's not. So like, essentially, anyone comes to me with pelvic floor issue. It's bowels, first of all right.
Catie Friend 25:54
Wow. Who knew? Exactly. Well, you obviously. And so you're saying that there are different times that pelvic floor becomes an issue? You know, it can't be all the time. But you know, one of the obvious ones that me as a mum I think of is, well, you know, I can't do very much skipping or jumping on a trampoline. Yeah, babies, even though one of them came out the sunroof, it's still affected, and what are the other but then you've also mentioned that, or I've read that it's, it can be affected post menopause as well. During enough menopause. What happens then just you know, asking for a friend.
Baz Moffat 26:33
Yeah. So for medicals you're eating, you know, your ovaries stop producing oestrogen, and each one is responsible for about 400 things in your body. And we have set receptors all over our body for each region. And if you haven't got Asia in your system, then those cells don't work so well. And so muscles rely on each other for their strength and their tone. And so when patients gone, then that's why you know, we lose muscle strength and muscle tone, and the pelvic floor is a muscle, and therefore,it just reduces in its strength and also the vaginal tissue. It loves oestrogen. So it to get plumpness. And it's like lubrication. It relies on having less vision in the system. So that's why metaphors like, regardless of whether women have had babies or not, is often a really tough time in terms of their pelvic health.
Catie Friend 27:21
Wow. So yeah.Mass is a huge subject. And I know that's kind of your area of expertise, as we've just discussed. But you've now linked up with Emma and Bella to put together the well now I came across it, I think because I heard Emma speaking on Laura Penhaul and Maek Beaumont's Endurance podcast. Yes. And then Iinterviewed Laura, and you know, so all sorts of connections. And I watched your very first webinar. Just absolutely blown away. Now I am an educated sporty woman in my late 40s with a read, you know, I've had a bit had two rounds of IVF I've had two babies. So I've, you know, I felt like I was pretty familiar with my own body. And, and I just sat there going, Oh, my God. Um, you know, and that's someone with that kind of background and talk to me like, I don't even know where to start. But all the things that you talked about, you know, periods and breasts and pregnancy and perimenopause, and menopause, and all the things. Talk to me about what has given you the three of you this, like, impetus to really start this movement is a movement.
Baz Moffat 28:40
You're absolutely right. It's a total movement. It's what we describe as a revolution. Because we what was given us the impetus was that no one was doing it. And we couldn't quite believe that no one was doing it. And we're like, how is no one doing this, though, I spent my whole life in elite sport, talking about marginal gains and talking about how can we, you know, get like point 01 second of this time, but you know, having the right feathers in our pillows, at nighttime, a little better quality sleep. And no one talked to me ever about my menstrual cycle. And they will talk to me about my sports bra, which we know now from the research is not is not a marginal gain. It's like massive, massive impact. And also, if you flip that to the other end of the spectrum, in terms of participation, like women are not participating in Sport and Exercise, because the environment is not a place where they feel welcome or where they feel they truly belong. So we put there was also you know, I think there was a huge amount of momentum now gathering in this space. But if we look back 18 months, when we started thinking about this, there was information coming out around gender data gaps, I think, you know, Caroline criado, Perez had written that amazing book called invisible women.
Catie Friend 29:52
Oh, yes, which I have and haven't read yet.
Baz Moffat 29:55
You must and it's kind of it started off there's kind of a bit of a movement aroundOh, this outrage, you know, around Oh my god, yo, did you know that there's no female statues in Westminster? Did you know that the transport systems are totally designed for men, and it just, it just created is like, and then there's another book written about how female How about medicine about how medicine is not designed for females and how, you know, the meds by drugs are tested on male rats and male sales and males. As all this stuff started coming out, and, and no one was providing a solution, everyone was kind of like looking at the problem and identify the problem. And that was really, really important work. But we were like, Oh my god, you know what, like, we know enough lay, there was enough of an evidence base to create a solution. Were also three women who have lived experiences of being women. And also the three of us have worked with 1000s of women between us helping them and making a difference. And so we thought, you know what, we can do this, we can put something together and be part of the solution. And what was amazing was that we recently did a webinar. And it was full of sports coaches, and PE teachers and people that worked like a national governing body level. And they were all like, Oh, my God, we have just accepted this, we have accepted, let's go through sport, women get paid less. But there's less of a progression. And you have just given us about 20 tools to use that we can implement straightaway and like, and that's what motivated us because we knew we could do it, we knew there was an absolutely brilliant combination of having an academic doctor and medical doctor and myself being you know, having been an athlete and being a coach, there was this amazing combination of knowledge and experience, but fundamentally believe that health and performance can sit alongside each other and, and that has never, that there is so much work to be done in that field. But that's what we fundamentally believe that you cannot train a woman in a way that destroyed her, whether that's mentally, physically, emotionally, so that the rest of her life is impacted by those two years of hyping up two or three years of being at the top of her game. A woman's health must be taken into consideration and and coaches and sports have to start taking responsibility for that.
Catie Friend 32:12
Why?I know the answer to this, because I've heard it, but and perhaps you can explain why there has been no studies, you know, on female athletes.
Baz Moffat 32:23
Yeah. So 4% of sports science research has exclusively done on women. And I think that 60% of that is deemed to be really bad quality. So the amount of information is really, really low. It's not so I studied sport, science degree and master's level. And it's and women are seen as too complicated because of our hormonal profile. So men have hormones, but they don't have a monthly cycles. They don't they fluctuate every day. So their cortisol and testosterone levels, and, you know, whatever else will will fluctuate quite predictably throughout the day, whereas women have these monthly rhythms and cycles. And also, we know that 50% of athletes are on hormonal contraception as well. So it's just six, if you think about, you can just gather a group of men and do the same kind of research on them. Actually, you need to, you need to factor in, like, what stage of the cycle a woman is, at what whether she's on hormonal contraception or not. And it's just seen as too complicated. I remember having conversations, like, you know, with my lecturers and advisors that are there, we just don't do women.But they do complex, and it will just apply, we'll apply what we learned from men to women. And it's just never and that's Yeah, which is, and it's only, it's only just recently where the impact that physiology has, is being recognised and the impact it has on the potential strength gains and their fitness and all that is starting to be recognised and it and it's, you know, something has happened sort of over the last 4 or five years, really.
Catie Friend 33:57
And that's nothing given how much research there's been on male athletes in the last however many 100 or so years. I mean, that's just like, that's like a nanosecond compared to today. And so what do you think, will? Or what is your hope your dream, your sort of absolute dream scenario that this sort of will mean for? Let's start with for elite athletes, first of all, yeah.
Baz Moffat 34:25
Well, you know, I, my dream is that health, a female that we can put the female back into being an athlete. So, up until now, it's all about being a quote, it's been all about equality, it's about being having equality of access to facilities, access to competition, the right you know, the same quality of hotels as the men, that kind of thing. But by doing by, by doing that, that the female part of being an athlete has been taken out. So I really feel that they the health of a female can be taken care of, in a way. That's not JoIt's seen as a weakness that women are able to talk about their menstrual cycle pain, talk about their fear of having endometriosis talk about the fact that when they're on the bike seat, their vulva really hurt and look at it and say, Oh my god, this is outrageous. They call it before they need surgery, that that is my dream for athletes. And also for sports. My dream is that they they start having education programmes that our teachers,we have, we are we are talking to top sports doctors in the world who don't know what we know. Right? This is, and that's because they have never ever been taught. We are talking to heads of PE in very, very sporty private girls schools, who have been women who have got who had themselves have gone to a male boarding school. And they have literally had one lesson in their in their year right about female biology. And now they are head of PT and a girl school at neither common. That is a common story that comes out. So at no point is anybody taught about female physiology, or anatomy it they talked about sex and talks about how not to get pregnant, but they're not talked about the hormones. And so we need to start Incorporated, we need to start you know, we have coaching qualifications, which are like how to coach children how to coach primary age children how to coach, teenagers, but not how to coach females going through puberty, how to keep you attend, yet, what can we do for your 10? girls? What What do elite x female athletes need? There is no there is no qualification, or education around this anywhere, the focus is bonkers. I was gonna ask you about, you know how, because men need to be part of this solution. 100%. And that was really, we spent so much time and so much money on our branding and our approach and our language around this because we know that most female athletes already most athlete coach relationships are female, male, so most females are coached by males. And so we have to make it really, really clear that we are about females, we are not just for females,everybody is welcome to come and learn from us. And actually, what has been brilliant is that we get emails every day from guys who are like, Oh, my God, thank you so much. I've been coaching girls, young girls for, you know, for 20 years, 30 years. And I know that I've needed to know other things, but there's been no appropriate way for me to learn information. I have not known who to go and ask about periods or breath or sports bras, because it's been it could well have been interpreted in the wrong way. You have now you you brought it to me in a way that I can access and they are just so grateful for that.
Catie Friend 37:48
And how do male coaches go about that? Because, you know, you hear such horror stories of Yeah, the you know, elite athletes, and, you know, just came out about the, you know, the gymnastics in the US, sort of thing that you hear all the time and how, how is it manageable?
Baz Moffat 38:05
It has to be, it has to be acknowledged that this is a tough conversation. And I think, you know, we have what we call like an act braver framework. And it's a framework that we've kind of put together to help coaches start having these conversations in a way that is totally appropriate. So for example, we know that 50% of school girls don't wear sports bras to do sport. So you can imagine if you go in as a young PE teacher and say, or an old PE teacher say right girls who wear a sports bra that will come across as a really inappropriate conversation. So you'd have to, you know, with that example, you'd write to the parent and you say, right, this is we are going to be talking about this for these reasons. Because these are the performance gains, there is this there's a school, there's a school bra, or these are the these are the brands that we recommend, and when I'm talking to your girls on Wednesday afternoon, and these are the points I'm going to cover, and then in that meeting, it will be right because I've written to your parents, they although we're going to be having this conversation, it might feel a bit weird, but this is where we're having it and it's kind of, you've got to bring it down to you've always got to say why you're having the conversation and why it's important. And then I think also making sure that you have signposting out to people that they might not be feel comfortable talking to you. But if they're a school nurses or a school counsellor is there ahead of year that can take that they can then go to and it's just making sure that you don't just go in and have a random conversation. Anyone that hormonal contraception, like you call it, you got to acknowledge that you are going to trigger that at some point you are going to trigger some stuff talking about these things. And therefore you have to have built in support around it.
Catie Friend 39:38
Yeah. It's fascinating. And I'm quite interested because the big thing on your one of the big things that Oh, keep seeing on your feed at the moment is about sports. Yes. And this extraordinary we seek I am feeling really bad because I'm sitting here in a terrible bra while I'm talking to you.And I knew whenever we get on this morning that I was going to talk to you aboutLike, this does not fit me properly. And I begin in very big trouble. But I think it's just not something has ever bothered me because I have this smaller breasted variety. Yeah, but I'm so I'm fascinated to hear, because I've always known that my girlfriends with big boobs have gone, oh, it's a nightmare, I can't run or I feel this or blah, blah, blah. But I'm fascinated to hear that it's important for all of us, regardless of the boob size.
Baz Moffat 40:26
I know it's because your breasts are just skin, there's nothing holding them on, you know, so they're kind of like so even the brilliant story that Dr. Ross always says tells us incredibly well, if you were stood on the start of a marathon and you hadn't your your clothes next to you, and the only difference was your bras and one of you had what you're wearing today. And one of you had a really good sports bra and wealth into sports bra, the person with a well fitting sports bra would finish a mile ahead of the person with the ill fitting sports bra. Now that is that doesn't that doesn't matter how big your boobs are, whether you're a B cup, or whether you're a D cup, whether you're an eight minute mile or a six minute mile, it doesn't, it makes no difference. It's the it's because our boobs move so much that it's the boobs move so much that it kind of really impacted our biomechanics, our stride length and how we breathe. And it's really important that we're, yeah, that were being that were being fitted properly. But again, we're talking with schools and quite a lot of private schools who are like, Oh my God, we don't even have a sports bra as part of our kids. Like it's not. And when I was growing, we didn't have sports bras, and it wasn't World Championships, it was that we got them. But we were made to feel the bestsports bra. And it wasn't a sports bra, it was a quarter. And if you had just had to put two on do you know, it's like, the amount of technology that goes into like, you know, the boats and the blades and the, you know, the warm ups and everything. And no one was looking at our bras and they are now just but it's Yeah, it's crazy.
Catie Friend 42:02
So how would one go about finding the right size and for one's build?
Baz Moffat 42:08
Yeah, so there are there are there's a brilliant research group in Portsmouth so if you're like what a throw everything at it, and you've got, you know, you'd go and have a test or you'd go on a treadmill, and they try with different browsers. And they, they, you know, they put electrodes on you to see how much your boobs are moving that kind of an elite athlete kind of thing. For the rest of us. There are some you know, there are some brilliant brands now which have brought, you know, we've had research departments. And so you want to make sure most if you're doing high impact sport, you need a bra as opposed to a crop tops and you need something that kind of compartmentalises both of your boobs, so it's kind of just like having one Wait, it needs to you need to have been, yeah, like a proper sports bra. And it needs to be fitted. Well, I think that theyou know that there are that shock absorber sweaty Betty, there'll be more andmore name, but they they all have brought research departments and I think not connected. So not that bad either. I think they kind of like do it as well. But making sure you're having that high impact in a bra a proper bra fit as opposed to a small, medium large.
Catie Friend 43:12
Yes, yes. Because the thing is, despite the fact that you know, I'm not don't have big boobs, I'm I'm nearly six feet tall. And big. So you know, some people always say, oh, you'd be a small and I'm like, Well, no, I'm not. Because I'm quite broad. And so it's always that. Yeah, I've never Yeah, never. I'm kind of aware immediately and research.For my marginal gains, are not Mars. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I one of the things I read on your website is that this quote that really struck me and it's something that we I spoke about right at the beginning, and it You said something, I'm sort of paraphrasing, but women shouldn't need to study how to be a woman, it should be already in our culture. Yeah, environment. So what can we do as women? You know, I'm a mom bringing up a daughter, sporty daughter, what can we do? And also, I'm bringing up a son, so you know, equally as important. How, what can we teach, I teach my daughter,
Baz Moffat 44:14
you need to talk about what you're going through that you need to talk about your men and we need to use the right language. Like, you know, my kids are quite small. They're five and six, don't sorry, yeah, they are 565 and six, forgot that. And I A few weeks ago, or even a couple of months ago, they asked me a question about sex or something or like you know, women's bits and men's bits and and I use really just rubbish language and I was so ashamed of myself I got bad if you can't use this right language. How on earth can you expect other people to so from that point on I was that right? I'm gonna whenever they ask me a question, I'm going to tell them as it is, and I am so now we use we use exactly the right terms and actually, they they are totally fine with it. They are totally fine with it.If I'm the one with the issue saying testicles and sperm and vagina and penis, but I'm the one that kind of like if it awkward, and I think that it's just, you know, if they say, Oh, what's that? And it's a tampon, you say, Oh, it's a tampon and you know, sometimes when we had when we had what's called a period every month and you don't have I just answer whatever question they have in a very black and white unemotional way, I don't say, Oh, it's a bit of, it's something special for mummies or like, and I think with daughters, it's, you know, when they get to eight and nine, it's making sure that you know, if you have a partner that they're involved to, and it's like that they know that you have a conversation about their periods and their menstrual cycles, and what might happen and what products you think they might want to consider to kind of have a little bag which they take everywhere with them. You know,your, your partner can do that, too, if they've got that. And we know that, that those relationships are really important when it comes to sport. But often when it gets to puberty, that it might be different one situation where maybe that girl goes off to a weekend event, starts a period is to embarrass the dads to get some sanitary products and spends a whole day running in and out of the toilet is stuffing our pants with lube. And then she'll be like, I'm not gonna and there's no way I'm going with my dad again. And but had that dad been able to say, oh, I've got them in the bag, or let's just make sure you know, do you need this? It just, it's just making sure that we normalise all the life stages and that, that we don't hide the fact that someone's had a hysterectomy or we don't hide the fact that someone's struggling postnatally that we talk about it and there's been not, they're not relying on I remember going to an amazing talk about sex education. And there was a porn, there's a lady that that was in into porn, but she was right, what's got your porn positive? Like she was kind of like she? Yeah, she was just part of the porn scene. Women, that porn. pornography is blamed for a lot of the issues that young people have with sex, it is not a poor man's problem. It's that they are not being educated anywhere else. So we have to take responsibility for educating our children so that they don't go online to find out what a vagina looks like, in which case is online and they say, Oh, is that there's no pubic hair, there's no, we have to have to smell nice. We need deodorant. If that's where they're getting their information from, then that is not right. We have to we have to be the people educating them about their bodies.
Catie Friend 47:25
And incredible, that's really powerful stuff. I've always been a bit of a believer in, you know, I'm not obviously using the right words, I guess. But I'm a big believer, you know, in normalising everything. And I had quite a good example of that growing up. So I was lucky. You know, we talk about everything in this house. And it's really important. It's really important. I couldn't agree more. Do you ever get overwhelmed because I read a lot of the stuff the stats that you put out on your your Instagram and the stuff on your website? And, and and I feel overwhelmed thinking, Oh, my god, there's so much that could be done that can be done that needs to be done. Like, are you? Do you ever get feelings of thinking, how are we ever going to get this done already? have you managed to break it down and you're thinking this is my plan? We're going to nail this.
Baz Moffat 48:17
And I think it's almost the opposite. Like we were writing a book at the moment, and there was an idea. We kind of like writing it together. And so in certain sections, some of the statistics are outrageous, like outrageous, but we're writing them in a very nonchalant way. And it's almost like we're desensitised to it. You know, we're desensitised. So I often say, This is incredible that you can't describe that and not acknowledge that this is incredible. And I, I don't get overwhelmed at all. I just see, I, I know that this is a 510 year plan like this, we we are literally at the start. And it's messy. And there's loads to do. But I'm like how excited like, women are doing so well. And it's phenomenal, like the where we're at. But we're there without any we haven't even touched the sides on the true potential of what we can achieve. So for me, I genuinely I'm not just saying this, I genuinely find it really exciting because I'm like if we can actually educate women, educate those who support them, provide facilities andfacilities that where women feel truly welcome. Like how amazing would that be?
Catie Friend 49:35
Oh, it's absolutely extraordinary. And one of the things I came away from your webinar with and one of the reason I am literally instantly messaged you going please come andhave the genuine and sincere enthusiasm and excitement that I felt from all three of you. I mean, they just busting through that screen like you were sitting. Actually I was sitting in bed, soBut weird, you're sitting in bed with me. But yeah, you know, like you were actually I was there and I just thought, wow, this is something that they are truly genuinely enthusiastic about.
Baz Moffat 50:11
We are and, you know, there was that webinar that you did, there was 800 people on that webinar. And we did it four weeks later. And we have 900. And it's like, how is this, we've only been going since Janet, we're going to be going for like two and a bit months. And we're already generating this interest and we are talking, you know, the business side of it will come right out, you know, that will come but they the interest and the impact. And the way we have got into that the top level having conversations, and they the top, the people we have we talked to within sports, many times say almost that they feel it's a can of worms and were described, they describe our work as a can of worms. And they say we don't want to open that can of worms. And we'll just have to sit there and take a breath and just almost wait for them to realise what they've just said before we actually like go back at them. But this is why we are playing the long game. We know this is gonna take ages, but we're ready we are we're here. We're not we're not in a rush. We're not in a rush. It's, it's the right is 100% the right thing to do, but it has to happen. And we know that the three of us and everyone that works with us and supports us is like, you know, is a really, really strong group to help make this happen.
Catie Friend 51:20
And how are you? What do you have plans. Because easy for me, I have internet access, I have, you know, resources. And you know, as I say, a good relationship with my own body and sport and so on. This must be very, sort of even more challenging to get to people, women, specifically without necessarily the advantages that I have. So in marginalised areas of society,
Baz Moffat 51:50
totally, and that is very much on our radar, and very much, you know, we also we are three white middle class heterosexual women. And so we kind of got the, that's the lens that we see this world through. So we are really, really aware of that. And it's something that we are constantly working on. And it's the I think that the work that we're doing in schools specifically, although the money will probably come from independent, it's very much being developed, so that it will support the state system too. And we can't, we can't fix all women, but it's very much like isn't that this is not just us going out there fixing the people that can afford to work with us or, or afford to kind of like spend money on themselves. It's very much part of our business model. But you know, we've got to have the money coming in so that we can then do the do the charitable work as well.
Catie Friend 52:40
And so you've mentioned briefly a book Tell us about that
Baz Moffat 52:43
IT was a bit of a journey.We've been at Dr. Emma Ross, who we talked about is very, very clever.To say so we we've gone along, and we we've gone along the self publishing route, but we're now kind of starting to think well, maybe we should go traditional publishing. So we're just starting to explore that route. And hopefully, in the next few weeks, we'll be able to kind of like share some more news on that. But it's there. There is a book and it is our like, we're just it's our life's work, it's kind of like everything that we feel every woman should should know about their bodies, and so that they can, that the information isn't out there and is where we feel we sit is where between academia and kind of influenced us. So we have, you know, you have all the academics, who are very, very clever, and all the doctors, they're not so great always at communicating their message in an accessible way. You know, that. And then you've got the employees who kind of come from a sort of an individual perspective about how they are coping with their lives and what's going on. So we kind of like got this book that is trying to provide an evidence based approach, but also in a really real way with loads of stories and loads of practical advice and loads the top tech so it's kind of a really accessible way to access it. There will be a book I cannot tell you when it's going to be coming out. But it's written it's just a case of working out the best way to get out there
Catie Friend 54:09
and social media Where can we find you
Baz Moffat 54:12
or at the well hashtag that the well, HQ. So we're on we're on Instagram, we're on Twitter, we're on Facebook, and we're on LinkedIn and so yeah, so and we're pretty active on all on all those platforms and well I did clubhouse if you don't clubhouse Yeah, totally. Do you love clubhouse Do you? Oh my god it petrified me but I have so many people that Cobra has come on prep has been dabbling. I mean, we aren't there just yet but we might be doubling the power of this patch bothers me but it's not the head around it.
Catie Friend 54:43
And then there's the obviously the website and I'll put all of this in the show notes. So that's great. No challenge Katie What have you got for me bass
Baz Moffat 54:51
pelvic floor exercises. Do you do them?
Catie Friend 54:54
Not really.
Baz Moffat 54:55
Right. So every single woman needs to do a pelvic floor exercises. Even If you don't have any issues, but because it said your late 40s, you are going to be perimenopause or menopause or at some stage relatively soon. So we need to get you ahead of the curve, right. So what I want you to do is if you haven't already got it on your phone, download the NHS squeezy app, which will cost you three pounds, actually, are you.So you need to do it. So you need to then do it every single day. So you need to do your 10 proper exercises, but you turn them on exercises your attentional exercises, once a day, every day, and after 10 days, you will start to feel it's easier. But and the best top tip from me is that you will never feel like doing them you work out well. What should I do? Now? I know.It's not like that. So you have to try and say, okay, just make it a habit so that you don't have to think about it. So we don't, I don't want you to kind of increase your mental load by having to think when am I going to do these because you then start presenting them. And so do them at a time, which is, you know, whether it's part of your exercise routine, or B, I often do them. When I come into my office, I sit down. I put my 3d app on, and I just do them then for three minutes. It's almost like the first thing I do before I start work.
Catie Friend 56:11
Ah, good. Yes. That's always the key to starting a habit, isn't it to attach it to something else? Yes. Yes. Awesome. You know, because I did do it for a while.
Baz Moffat 56:20
And then yeah, you need to honestly you need to get back on it because you only lived half your life, right? So you need this pelvic floor to last year. Because if you if you fast forward 30 40 years, your continence is your independence and it relies reliant on your pelvic floor strength.
Catie Friend 56:36
Oh, that's a good, that's a scared me into it.
Baz Moffat 56:39
I will check. I'll check in with you to make sure you're doing this.
Catie Friend 56:42
You can check on check on my skipping exercises. Brilliant Baz, thank you so much. That was absolutely just even more fascinating than I thought it would be.For your time really, so important for all of us, as you say not just for women, but for our men folk to understand and be able to support as well.
Baz Moffat 57:04
Thank you so much for having me.
57:12
Thanks for joining me. I'll be back next week with another incredible episode of chatting to a friend. In the meantime, please give us a follow on Instagram chatting to a friend for all the latest news. Bye bye”
