Chatting to Lucy Shepherd

In the 4th episode I am chatting to Lucy Shepherd, professional explorer and adventurer. Can you imagine that was your job title?

At only 28 years old, she has been at this for a decade and in that time has been on expedition from the Arctic to the Amazon on foot, on skis and always in extreme conditions.

Obviously, the chat centres around adventuring and sticky, near death situations and how to survive for two weeks on the side of a mountain in a snowstorm (by keeping busy, is the answer!)

We also touch on, however, how to cope with post-expedition blues, how the world views a young woman who has decided to make this her career and how she feels about the future of our planet that she cares so deeply about.

A funny, insightful and enthusiastic chat with some deeper messages for us all about how to bring a sense of pride and achievement into your life on a daily basis.

At 23, Lucy was made a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society and is currently the youngest board member on the board of the Scientific Exploration Society, both titles she holds with great pride.

You can find more about Lucy on her website www.lucyshepherd.net, including information on how to go on expedition with her to the Arctic in 2021.

You can also follow her on Instagram on @lucysheps

Transcript

Please note that transcripts are automatically generated by articifical intelligence and may not be 100% accurate.

“SPEAKERS

Catie Friend, Lucy Shepherd

Catie Friend  00:02 In the fourth episode, I'm chatting to Lucy Shepherd, professional explorer and adventure. Can you even imagine that that was your job title. So cool. at only 28 years old. She has been at this for a decade and in that time has been on expedition from the Arctic to the Amazon, on food on skis. And always, in extreme conditions have funny, insightful and enthusiastic chat with some deeper messages for us all about how to bring a sense of pride and achievement into your daily life. At 23. Lucy was made a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society and is currently the youngest board member of the scientific exploration society, both titles she holds with great pride. Hi, Lucy, thanks for joining me today.

Lucy Shepherd  02:38

Hi, thank you very much for having me.

Catie Friend  02:39

It's very exciting to have you on I'm just been reading your website and it's it's so exciting. It's just like a girls on adventure list of amazing places and things to do around the world.

Lucy Shepherd  02:51

Ya know, I like to I definitely like to get around.

Catie Friend  02:54

And so as I said in my intro, 28 years old, but already a decade of exploring and adventuring under your belt. Can you give us well, I'm going to do a quick rundown of what I have understood the Arctic Alps, Norway, Bolivia, the Amazon, Iceland, Russia, Alaska, I'm sure there are more. But you know, so lots of different types of adventure. So ski mountaineering, cross country skiing, tracking, even adventure racing, which is a whole myriad of adventures in itself. Could you give me your top three, and why they were so exciting.

Lucy Shepherd  03:30

I'll give it a go. The ones that come to mind, I mean, the most recent expedition, luckily, I managed in 2020 to get away. At the start of this year, I did a big Trek and traverse across a part of the Amazon rainforest. And it was just me and five other Amerindian guys. And it was just such a special expedition for many reasons. One of the way nothing like that had been done before the dynamic between myself and the Amerindians was very, very special. And the jungle was always somewhere that I never found very well, no one finds it comfortable. But I out of all the sort of disciplines and areas and environments, I always found it quite intimidating. But this time, I felt like you know, I'd cracked it. And now I can't wait to get back to the jungle. And that sort of opened up, you know, endless possibilities now. So that was a very, very, very good expedition. And also one that I thought was going to be quite a small adventure last year. Ski mountain aired across the high Sierras and it was just myself, my climbing partner and boyfriend Tim, and also one of our very good friends who we climbed Denali with Matt. And we originally saw it was going to be sort of a short you know, less than a week, adventure skiing these beautiful mountains climbing up so the straightforward just east west, and it was anything but it was so treacherous, treacherous. There was so many things that came out of that and there were times that were really That one, we might not make it ourselves. But to you know, we might we may have had to turn around and things like that. And as a result, it just became such a proud moment. And I think our, our sort of team spirit together was something that I really hold closely in my, in my heart, it was such a such a great experience. And it's always best when you share things. I'm a strong believer of that. And I suppose the final final number three, what would that be, I think, probably my first ever expedition because that kick started it all. And that was to Svalbard for 10 weeks in up in the Arctic. And that was sort of the first time I realised that this is something that something that I was relatively good at something that I was very eager to learn more about. And that just started it all. Really 10 weeks of the Arctic's does that T,

Catie Friend  05:51

that's incredible. 10 weeks from from never having experienced it before. You just said that you knew you were good at it. What does that mean? How does one know that one is good at adventuring, and, you know, living in remote parts of the world?

Lucy Shepherd  06:05

I think if you enjoy it, if you enjoy aspects of it, that other, you know, are challenging, but you take that you take that on board, and you enjoy that part of it as much as the other part. You accept that as part of it, then that's a real good, that's a good starting point, I think. And I'd never you know, I've never been particularly good at anything much really growing up. And then at 18, I went off to this Arctic expedition. And I'd always been a fan of the likes of when he started when I was a teenager in a bear grylls no one really knew of him. And I was reading these books and that, you know, opened the doors to run, I'll find some people like that. And I've read all these books, and I've read these this word expedition. And his word expeditions have sounded so magical and mysterious. And I didn't I was at the age where I didn't really think that that was something that I could do or that people even still did expeditions. And then I think it was age 1617 saw an advert in the paper for this 10 week spellbind expedition. And it said expedition and I sort of said, You know, I can go on an expedition, but that has sort of created this imagination, and excitement and enthusiasm, just even preparing for something like that, because that's as much as the of the adventure as the adventure itself. Isn't that you know, there's a lot of preparation. Absolutely. So, ya know, as soon as I was on an expedition with myself, I felt like I was sort of in a storybook.

Catie Friend  07:35

That is incredible. Because you do think these days, there must be nowhere in the world that people haven't gone before an expedition sort of, as you say, especially as a youngster perhaps but even though you'd think, Oh, really? Is there anything people haven't done or haven't been at sort of conjures up men and woollen suits and dying on the side of the Eiger, that kind of thing? Yeah. And so how do you come up with what you want to do? Because obviously, that was something you saw and you joined, but presumably, do you set your own agenda as much as possible?

Lucy Shepherd  08:09

Yeah, I mean, that was the only one really, that was sort of pre organised, you know, expedition. And ever since then, I realised that I wanted to go to the places that were more remote. And, you know, that people hadn't done it necessarily done before very few had. And I think for me, when I'm trying to decide I get, I get a sort of gut feeling and something in my heart, I suppose that this urgency when I've decided, like, that's it, I've got to go very quick at deciding where I want to go. And then I don't like it to be very much sort of too long from the preparation point to going. So if it's very remote, that's a big part. If I haven't heard of it, that's a big bonus. There's lots of lots of places or areas in countries that I've never heard of. And then if it's got a big journey, which attracts me, but for I mean, you say that people do think that there's nothing left to explore there. So I mean, as you know, so untrue. There are so many parts of wealth, the sea, the ocean is the obvious one, but then even the jungles where I was in the Amazon. Yes, people had been in and out of that area, but no one there was no records or anything. And I was with our Indians who they were under the impression that no one had done what we were doing. We were going into that whole expedition, not knowing how long it would take. It was very unknown. We ever soon as we stepped foot into that deep jungle, it was very much like okay, this is up to us. This is we just have to take each day as it goes. And by doing that, you know, it would be very demoralising. If you actually had a proper plan, because the jungle throws everything at you. Yeah, there'd be days where you're only doing two kilometres when you use that's it. It's ridiculous and you say two kilometres In 810 hours, but you just have to just have to roll with it and accept that that's the kind of thing that the jungle environment leads to.

Catie Friend  10:08

Do you think that? I mean, Have you always been a patient person, there must be an element of patience in these sorts of urgency crossed with patients, because as you say, two kilometres in eight hours is sown, soul destroying, but perhaps you as you say, you have to roll with it and understand that that in itself is an achievement. Yeah, I

10:30

know, I would, I would classify myself as a patient person. And just know if you know, if something is out of your control, then you have to accept that with everything. And that goes with weather conditioning conditions, when you're climbing that goes with like, how you're feeling. I mean, if it's something so bad that you can't control it, then you just have to calculate what you can control and figure out what you what you can do from then on, and then go from there everything.

Catie Friend  10:58

Yeah, talking of which I read on your website about having been stuck in a tent for two weeks on the side of Denali.

Lucy Shepherd  11:05

Yes,

Catie Friend  11:06

that sounds insane. People say that.

Lucy Shepherd  11:10

I like honestly, that, that two weeks, I really it just bled into what I can't remember being that board at all. It's very strange. I think I was a bit delirious.

Catie Friend  11:20

Tell us about that. What How did that come about? And how did you feel? And how did you keep up morale and all that sort of stuff?

Lucy Shepherd  11:27

Well, Denali is so denied in Alaska. And it's known for having these mega storms. And myself and three others, three friends who has a team of four, started planning this expedition. And I sort of took on quite a lot of the logistics side of things. And everything I was reading about not only capturing when these storms that last, you know, they can last days. And sometimes they would even last 10 days or something like that. And I was reading this and but then I found it a bit confusing that a lot of teams, when they went, they would only take sort of 21 days of food, so they would expect it. And that would be allowing for, you know, a storm. But that didn't make much sense to me. Because if you want us to give your best, your best crack at the mountain, need to take as much food as you possibly can. In case this happens. Especially as you know, you take a sled or poke halfway up the mountain anyway. Okay, and before you start the climb, and so we decided to take as much food as we could possibly take, which I think was 32 days in the end. So 11 more days, 11 days more than others would take. And would you believe it, as soon as we set off, it's bright blue sky, and it's beautiful weather, you know, cold, we're freezing, but just lovely. And then we think we're going quite slow to go this food. And then we reach 14,000 foot camp, and the weather starts to roll in. And it starts to get in minus 40. And then the winds start to pick up and then snow starts to come and you're constantly digging out your tent. Because it's just, you know, you're getting you keep sinking into the snow so much and getting piles of snow on top of you. And then the days just started rolling by and rolling by and you know, other teams were really struggling and having to risk going back down the mountain because they didn't have enough food. Or they would be starving attend knowing that as soon as the sun came out that they would have to go down instead of going up. But yeah, we were sort of happy as Larry just sitting sitting in our tent, eating our rations, having a rest. I donate to it. I mean two weeks in it's one of the hilleberg tents so I mean, if you're on Denali is so cold if you're not moving, it's frighteningly cold so you're either in your sleeping bag or doing something otherwise it's just a bit of a panic quick. Okay, so yeah, just spent a lot of my time either digging out the snow or melting a lot of snow because it takes a long time to melt the water for your food and melt the snow sorry for your food and water. Or Yeah, in my sleeping bag. But

Catie Friend  14:03

it sounds like excellent preparation for lockdown beings.

14:08

right a lot of napping.

Catie Friend  14:12

Amazing and and relationships between the team were fine. Everybody played their part. Nobody freaked out. Yeah, I

14:20

mean, so I was in a tent with Tim and then there were the other tent had to Matt and will. And there would be days went by that we didn't actually see them well, but we'd be shouting to them through the walls. And yeah, I think everyone was just as patient and accepting You know, this is, this is where we are. We knew this was going to be tough. You know, the best as long as everyone is okay and healthy. And that's the most important thing and I am definitely very keen or I always go with like minded team members. No egos just don't exist, that that can't be a thing. I cannot go with people who you know, will go go gung ho and will do Anything to reach that summit or whatever. So I think as long as we're all caring for each other, and everyone's looking after each other, and you know, if someone needs to stop, and whether it be a blister or adjusting something that will make whatever we're doing the climb or ski more comfortable than they do it. And I think we make, I think setting that out early on expectations is very, very important, then you can't really go wrong.

Catie Friend  15:25

It is very important to understand how you behave under duress I yeah, I have experience of that. Not two weeks on the side of a mountain, I hasten to add, but so you've mentioned a couple of times, already. So when you felt near death, and how you feel about that, because I also read your report about the or I heard what you talking about the first time you were in Ghana, and they were stoked by the Jaguar? Obviously, you and I watched your video about being in the high Sierras. And you know, some sketchy moments I know mountains and I know the fear of thinking. I don't know if we will get out of this. Yeah. And obviously there have been other times perhaps you didn't feel near death on Denali, but it must have started to feel like a flipping long time being stuck there. What do you do? Do you have self talk? Do you distract yourself? How do you cope with that level of this could be it.

16:23

I think a lot of it comes down to before I even leave. So I spend a lot of my time. As soon as I've decided on the expedition, I spend a lot of my time mentally preparing. I'm not it's not so much on purpose, but I do it. I think I do it naturally I start to think okay, what will it feel like if this happens, or if we are on the side of a mountain, and we have misjudged it, and it's avalanche risk or, you know, wild animals or things like that. So I stopped putting daydreaming and putting myself in that scenario. And thinking, you know, how would I cope. And I think I always sort of kept the same way I sort of go, Oh, I thought this would happen, or I didn't actually think this would happen. But now it's happening, I better get on with it. And it's happened, it does happen quite a lot. And I think the only time where I've really started to think this is this is too much and start to feel bad for my family and the people that you leave behind was when I was climbing in Tajikistan, and because everything about that just felt wrong. I'm very strong believer about trusting your gut and trusting your instinct. And if it's all been fine up until a small point, then there's like, like I was talking about earlier, you know, it's out of your control, you know that you go to these places. And there are these risks. And you take that sort of accepting factor and being focused and just doing what you can to eliminate any risks. But if you've had that I can take gigas down, I had a constant bad feeling about the whole thing that I guess gives you more time to think about it. And that guilt and sort of, yeah, just thinking I did it. This is not a place where I want to die.

Catie Friend  18:03

Strange, you should mention that I've actually heard other people who have been in these situations very, very real near death, on expeditions or on adventures. And that is what they think about they think about the people that they love and what a disaster this will be for them. Not about I'm gonna die. That Yeah, just thinking about thinking, Oh, man, it'd be terrible. Yeah, like, What

18:30

a shame. Because I think I actually had the most recent one because I did the Amazon this year. And there was there was one day in particular, that was absolutely terrifying. But because there was so much to think about on that day, and to make sure I didn't die. I there wasn't much time to think like that. But actually, when I've completed that expedition, I had to get a very, very small plane back to the city, which I've done before, and it's been absolutely fine. But in my gut, there was something wrong about this plane. And I've been on helicopters that just I later found out that the pilots who are flying it were not actually pilots. And this I started to get a similar feeling and the weather came in. And suddenly it was that the monsoon weather in the cloud with mountain jungle mountains everywhere and the plane was jumping all over the place. And I was just thinking, you know, cross this whole mountain. Now I'm gonna you know, we've been celebrating that completed this expedition now for goodness sakes, I think and then just started to think how are those people that came I remember trying to put my iPod on and I was like, chasing the music thinking this will take my mind off it. That's an unbelievable amount of music that has the word fall, or goodbye or you know, it's lovely to him. It's been lovely to be here. Now it's time to go and things like that. I just couldn't get it.

Catie Friend  19:59

And so you will just build up a huge amount of sort of adrenaline and cortisol. And, and I know from my own sort of adventures that there's there are two sides to that disappearing one is the sort of post event blues of, well, normal life feels a bit dull. Yeah. And obviously, there's a slight, sometimes there's a slight relief that, well, all the planning and all the journey and all that everything is over. And I can just sort of sit and drink a cup of tea. Yeah. But also, you know, that sort of stuff builds up in your system, you know, and it can become a addictive and be not terribly good for you, because there's that all the, you know, the sympathetic, parasympathetic nervous system where your body is in constant fight or flight because it's so used to the adrenaline hits, how do you come down from events or events, expeditions and stuff so that you feel safe and ready and healthy enough to start again? Well,

20:58

I think, because of from my first expedition to Svalbard, and when I came back from that I hit the sort of post expedition blues, like you talked about, like, I hit it hard. And because I've never really experienced that before, and I mean, it was the stuff sort of eating disorder, I was very miserable to be around, you know, I started getting addicted to running to fill that gap and things like that. So I, for about, you know, six months, to then lemonade sort of lasted for a couple of years, really? I had this feeling of Wow. You know, because everyone kept saying about that expedition, you know, Wow, what an amazing once in a lifetime experience. And they say that when you get back, and to hear that, after you finish something, as if that's it, you know, that's the best it can be like, now you're off to university and get a real job. Yeah, real life starts now.

21:53

And they

21:54

kept saying that, like, you know, refuse to believe that that would be the case, and I never wanted to, you know, join the military or anything like that. So that wasn't an option, then that seemed like the only option, you know, from the people that you read about you do this thing. So I did accept that that might be that might be it, and I have to find my find the kick elsewhere. But it was actually sort of meeting Neal Norton, who I know is a mutual friend of ours, he gave me this sort of self belief that actually, I could take this further, and I could keep doing it. When I saw that he was still doing it, you know, he'd been doing things, you know, all the time, that gave me the confidence to believe that actually, you know, there is this whole world out there of people doing these things met, I can tap into it, I just have to figure out how to fundraise, I have to figure out how to get the skills and go from them. And so now every time I returned from an expedition, I prepare myself for it. And I sort of reflect on I sort of start to relive it. And I also film every expedition. And so by filming it, I then come back. And when I get back a few weeks after I get back, I'll start editing it and go through the footage, and I sort of relive it that way.

Catie Friend  23:08

So yeah, I start sort of post processing it

23:12

there. And you start to think because because you're so on edge, the whole not on edge, but you're so alert and thinking about the present constantly, when you're there, you don't actually realise what an incredible experience it was until you get back.

Catie Friend  23:25

Seems a bit of a shame, doesn't it? is proper type to fun

23:30

100% type deal?

Catie Friend  23:34

And when do you often get asked? Do you still get asked? When are you going to get a real job? When are you going to settle down? When are you going to you know, because you've been doing this for decades. So you've pretty much proved that this is a something you can do are good at but also that you can sustain a life doing? Do you still get asked about that?

23:53

I mean, I think it depends it's very much a reflection of the person if they're asking it now. So if they are you know, I think you don't really get our pity in that same world if that sort of thing. So when you're going to like push it like they presume that as soon as you start family or something like that, then that's it you stop was like, when's that ever been the case for you know, men never met have never been asked her. So, I mean, I remember my parents for comfort for the first couple years start to think you know, this can't last forever. And then things started to come from it and skill level went up and actually now they they look at the pictures when I get back and they realise Oh, they have for some time they realise that the smile on my face on those pictures i can't i it's not the same smile as it is in in day to day life. It's definitely a very, very happy proud you they smile out there. You can't hide the outdoors.

Catie Friend  24:51

That sounds amazing. And in terms of friendships, obviously now you have a very firm well I hope you have a firm base of friendship base. On your adventures and people that you can do these sorts of things with, but at the age of 18, when you decided to sort of take on this thing, or when you were leaving University saying, Yeah, I'm just going to go off and tackle the world. Yeah, did people? You know, you you mentioned you touched on the once in a lifetime opportunity? Did? Did you have friends who got it? Or was it just quite hard to find people who weren't? You know, I've heard before of adventurers and explorers and things saying that people got a little bit. No, well, I'm settling down to real life. So you should be too and there's a kind of envy and a little bit of, you know, not it's not much fun, because there's this sort of clash between what they think they should do and what you that you want to do. Yeah, I

25:42

mean, I think for a while, people, a lot of people thought it was just sort of an extended holiday, which really, really got to me, because it's like, well, I know what you're saying, because it's it, you know, for me, it is something that I get secondary enjoyment from, but it's also a sort of career and lifetime thing that I'm doing. And I would I think I'm very I'm a firm believer about, you know, I think people have talked about this before, but people are either drains, or radiators, I think is the idea. So the people who can either drain the energy from you, and you really feel it if I start talking about some expedition, and I very rarely will start talking about expeditions, because I am aware that people and the, you know, the wrong sort of people don't want to hear about them. I don't want to have you know, I don't want to share anything with people. People aren't interested at all, of course. But if someone sucks the energy out of you, then you have to question why you know why hanging around with them in the first place, you should definitely we should all try to radiate energy and give off enthusiasm and try and motivate others. So as I guess, it started to make me think, you know, who am I friends with? And who are my closest pals? You know, if they're encouraging for this, because they see it's something that I can't really live live without them. And that's, that's what you want, really?

Catie Friend  27:07

And do you get the opportunity to pass this on to young people? No, because it's something that, especially in these crazy COVID times, you know, people are stuck a lot of the time with the people that they're stuck with? Yeah, do you get the opportunity? Or do you take the opportunity when you can to sort of express this to people that you know, finding the right community, finding the people that support you, and, you know, love you for all your craziness. And as you say, radiate energy, is that something you are able to pass on?

27:42

I am actually starting a sort of flog on YouTube, because, you know, we're all stuck at home. So I'm actually starting something to share this knowledge while I while I'm here in my house, and other people are stuck in their house, you know, what, what can we all do to try and get through this together? But I mean, when I do these, that I haven't been doing the recently, but when I'm doing them in person, these talks, you can really feel it's often the quiet ones. And it's the ones that don't ask the questions. When you sit with the with the questions at the end, they come up to you. And they've got that twinkle in their eye that I remember having when I would watch someone that would give you data. I mean, it's not much it just gives you something to think, oh, maybe I can. Maybe I can do that. And it might not be to do with adventure at all. But it might just be everyone needs a little motivation and self belief. And everyone needs to top it up all the time. I said, I always need to talk about and things I exercising every day is a very good way to do that. And that tops tops your sort of throws away you think about yourself all the time, doesn't it? As soon as she stopped doing exercise for a day, two days or more. I mean, I feel my productivity. And my forward thinking definitely definitely goes down a

28:57

lot.

Catie Friend  28:58

Absolutely. And I I've had a while I was not sporty at all till I was nearly 40. And then I just sort of went and did some big stuff. But I it's still not it is still not part of my makeup. I find it so hard. I have to make myself exercise because I know that it's good for me. And I know that I feel better afterwards. Whereas I'm married to an exercise addict who if he doesn't do something, you know, as you say, two days without exercise, and he's like a bear with a sore head. Yeah, yeah, things like that. And also, I was listening to one of you it seems to be in a year of podcasts for you. I was listening to a podcast you did earlier in the year. And you said something that really resonated with me, which was finding out finding where you are happiest. And what makes you happiest and do more of that.

29:52

Yeah, yeah. And it doesn't have like, for me, obviously I love being in the Arctic and the jungles. Can't do that every day. How to Cook. But what is that feeling that you get from that, and it is not, it is most often a feeling of feeling proud of yourself and feeling no discontent and they're satisfied with how things are going. So if you can figure out what, you know, on a small scale, what does that for you. And then you can do that whenever you feel like you need a little bit more.

Catie Friend  30:24

A bit of I couldn't agree more, because just to sort of link back the two things that you've just said one about the the people who are listening, but don't ask questions until the end. And that feeling proud of yourself when I was about 25 or six, I heard Chris moon speaking. And I don't know if you know who he is. But he was a former British soldier who got kidnapped by the Khmer Rouge. He lost an arm and leg in a landmine explosion. And I mean, His story is just incredible. And I heard him speak. And he talked about that. And he talked about going on to complete the marathon disarmed. And just this part of me that was like, just completely speechless at the wonder and thinking and it sparked something in me at the time, I was hard working. So hard drinking, just, you know, partying and didn't really do any sports. So I kind of tucked it away. Yeah, and then something, almost 20 years later, I find myself a middle aged mother of two, running in the very first half marathon to sub, you know, in the deserts of the Canary Islands. Yeah. And finishing with that feeling of, Oh, my God, I cannot believe I managed to do that. But I can imagine. And, and I wrote at the end of my blog fight, find something that makes you feel this good. Yeah. And just keep doing it. It's the most extraordinary feeling. And I can understand why you keep searching for it. Even though there are obviously very real reasons why you do what you do. And I'm coming back to that. But it's just that that searching for that feeling

32:05

is and you can get it like I if even if you're just doing a hard running session or something up a hill, I found myself I think, just off to the Arctic when I was doing a lot of running. And I would go back to feeling like if it was hard that that run in particular, I would think, Hey, you know, you've, you've done this architect, you know, you can do this, feel proud of yourself, like, just believe in yourself. And if you can feel proud of yourself, and there's no better person to look up to. So you should always look up to yourself. And that doesn't, it doesn't matter if it's your past self. And if you're not your current self, you know, you can get back there. So to just keep keep finding that feeling, and then you can't exactly, it is addictive, it is

Catie Friend  32:51

it but I find it, I also get it if when I get up in the morning, kids are at school, and I tackle the most annoying thing of the day. Well, I don't always but on the days that I do, I think hey, check it out. And then, like 12 hours longer than I mean, I

33:12

have a saying that I first came came to learn it in the in Svalbard. And it's Don't lose your boldness. And what that sense essentially means is, as soon as you know the thought, or the word, I can't be bothered pops into your head. And that can be about anything that could be about taking the bins out or offering accountable this change the sheets or think things. As soon as it happens, it obviously is going to be a burden if you don't do it for the rest of the day. So do it straightaway. So my rule is as soon as I started, obviously can't I'm not hit superhero, I can't do it all the time. But as soon as I think you know, I can't be bothered, then I just got to rip off the bandage. And, you know, go go and do it straight away. And that makes the day or the task so much better. And on expedition it can be a life or death scenario. You know, even if it's a cannonball, all my, my crampons slightly loose, we have all this fear right now because I'm going to if I do it now then everyone will have to stop or

34:07

I won't get to catch up.

34:09

And there's this whole I mean, you must know it. There's this constant thing when you're with a team and you're not wanting to hold people back. But you. So if something happens that actually you would benefit from sorting, but it might be a bit of a faff, and it might cause a bit of strain. Just do it. Otherwise, something much worse could happen. And I'm sure lots of things that happen when things go wrong. It's always once lots of small things going wrong. Well,

Catie Friend  34:35

I do know that because I did ski mountaineering race the Petro diglossia from Zermatt to verbi a couple of years ago with two very good friends of mine and we'd been through the hole how do we react? What do we do if someone's got a problem? We wanted each other to you know, we wanted to talk about it. If someone was too hot, too cold, getting a blister you know, not feeling it, whatever it might be. We were We were we made a team decision that we would always I always listened to the other person that was having a bit of an issue and we would stop or we would help, or we would fix or whatever.

35:07

And these are the conversations that people have to have have. And they don't always they don't always have these things. And that is where things care for.

Catie Friend  35:13

And what exactly because halfway through the race, I was feeling we were all on tip top form, we'd had our ups and downs. And I was thinking, it's not as hard as everybody thinks. But I had stopped drinking water, because my CamelBak wasn't letting water out. Yeah, I assumed because it was, like three in the morning at 3000 metres, that it was frozen. And I had another little juice pack, and you know, like a little sort of energy drink thing. So I was drinking away at that. And I just kept thinking, I'll be fine. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. Yeah, it'll be fine. And four hours later, I still hadn't said anything, even though I was the teammate whose job it was to say, no, it's time to drink. Now it's time to eat. And I kept thinking, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. Because tiredness makes you stupid. Well, it makes me stupid. And it was a lesson I learned really hard way because I suddenly jiggled my pack. And actually, it had just been kinked. And there was nothing wrong with it. But by that stage, I was massively dehydrated and going as rate of a tortoise. Yeah, which affected the rest of the team. And fortunately, there also there were also lovely, they didn't hold it against me. But it was you're absolutely right, these things. You have to you just have to fix it. Yeah.

36:29

Just fix it. Just stop it and sort it out there. And then.

Catie Friend  36:33

Yeah, and I wanted sort of touch on you a little bit about the baldness, because there was also it was accompanied by a quote by David Attenborough about that, you know, I can't remember the exact quote, but it's about people won't bother, don't care about the things that they haven't seen or experienced. Yeah. And loosely, quote, and obviously, you are a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society, you're on the council, the scientific exploration society. So a couple of things come out of that for me. One is, how do you stay bothered, but not become overwhelmed? Because it's so huge. I watched David Attenborough's new film The other night, and I thought, Oh, you're doomed.

37:14

Yeah.

Catie Friend  37:15

How do you keep that bothered? I will keep the second question for after you answer this. But how do you keep that sense of urgency without thinking, I'm so overwhelmed, I can't do anything.

37:24

And I honestly think that the younger people who are coming up now, there's a lot that they mean, we should give the power to them. They give me a lot of hope. And I mean, I know we all know that the technology is there to make a greener planet. It wasn't there maybe 10 or 15 years ago, but it is now and it does just need some bit of investing. But I think people's people's minds are changing. And change is coming. And whether the government does it or whether it's people based through businesses and big companies. I'm very, I'm very optimistic about things. I know, the world seems a bit of a very shadowy grey place right now with everything that's going on. But I do think we will come out of this. And I do I mean, I think there'll be a lot of things that we will lose. And I unfortunately think that species more species will of course, be lost. And rain forests will be kept close, and they're near gone. But I think at the end of the day, we've we have to, and so we will, and I'm seeing changes every day, and it sort of fills me with joy. I mean, even going up to Scotland, last week, since last time I went, which was six months ago. So the amount of more wind turbines and things like that that have gone up. It's incredible. Like it's filled with it. And if we just keep getting it, we have to rapidly do more, of course, but I just yeah, I mean this, this world is too beautiful and to special. It's the only home we've got to not do something. So I hope that the greed and the sort of selfishness can be put aside and we can hopefully all work together as on a global scale, because that's essentially what needs to happen.

Catie Friend  39:10

What exactly and what do you bring back? So do you attach sort of investigating, I suppose is perhaps not the right word. But presumably, you know, you were away in Ghana in a place where people had never been before. Do people ask you to bring back evidence of what's there, what's not there anymore, or so on.

39:33

And so during that expedition, I was at as long as well as the journey itself. I was collecting every stream or every river water source I went by. I was taking water, water and sediment samples. And so the arrow is in a scene. It's very it's in the Kentucky mountains and it's seen as very isolated and it's protected and it's the they're very proud of the area. But because it's so high off, it's sort of you know, the Doesn't necessarily get polluted. That's what they think. I was taking water samples to look for microplastics in the water and sediment, because obviously we're finding these things up in the Arctic. And it's basically snowing. microplastics. So I mean, I because of COVID things, the research at the lab is on hold, but it will be very interesting to see what the results are and how bad it's got up there. So here, we have to find out how like whether it's just on the edges of the mountains, or whether it's got right into the into the depths of of it.

Catie Friend  40:34

And did you carry samples the whole way, then?

40:37

Yep. Yes.

40:39

No, you know, the bags got heavier. And yeah.

Catie Friend  40:42

Which is not normal on expedition. You normally get lighter food and

40:47

exactly litres and litres of water.

Catie Friend  40:50

Wow. Oh, that's amazing. Incredible. And so what is next on the agenda? Obviously, we are a little bit in hiatus for adventures. And I think you're probably very lucky. And one of the few that's been able to get away on expedition this year.

41:04

Yeah, I mean, I was actually meant to be guiding quick few Arctic expeditions. But of course, postponed and hopefully they'll go ahead next year. So that is sort of straightaway on the list, as well as I meant to be learning how to paraglide because it just makes getting off the mountain much easier. So I meant to be getting off to Spain to do that. But that might be postponed a few weeks, slash few months because of the current COVID. But the the big expedition that I'm planning is actually back to Guyana to do something else, something bigger than could take as long as three months. Sure. And so just trying to get the funding and hopefully might have recently got a little bit of a bite for that. So hopefully I can get that sorted and start planning for autumn next year.

Catie Friend  41:59

And when you say you're guiding so people can join you on some of your expeditions.

42:04

Yes, that's right. So one of my friends who is Norwegian live has a company up in Northern Norway, called touch today. And I started guiding with her last year. And we are going to be doing well. If all goes well, we'll be doing more trips across the fence market, a plateau in Norway, north south and west waste, but also in Svalbard as well. So I'm either with her or I might be on my own or with someone else. So we'll see.

Catie Friend  42:34

And that information can be found on your website.

42:37

Yep. So I mean, they can anyone can email me or there's a little join me tag, which is the expedition for Svalbard that was meant to be this year, but it will be very similar. So in the next year, and it's a very affordable, it's very, very extreme expedition, like it is very extreme. And we take novices, but we ease people in you know, we do the admin and the cooking to start with navigation, then gradually hand the reins over when we feel the team is confident enough, and we take up to eight people. And it's incredible to see the difference in in the team at the end. And I have just like we were talking about earlier, I talked to them about, you know, you're gonna get back, you feel like you're on cloud nine at the moment that you'll get back and you nothing would have changed. You know, it's only been a week or two weeks, but nothing would have changed in you know, your family would be the same. The milk might still be in the fridge or whatever, but you feel very, very, very different. And so it's sort of coaching them, you know, you might get the expedition's

43:35

blues but go back

43:36

to how you feel right now remember, you can capture this feeling and go back to it anytime you feel like that.

Catie Friend  43:41

And so anybody from any walk of life, sort of anyone reasonably fit and yet excited about doing something pretty hardcore.

43:51

Yeah, the main the main thing is enthusiasm and up for

Catie Friend  43:54

it. And then we'll take you the rest of the way. Brilliant. And so we can find out on your website, which is

44:00

at Lucy Shepherd dotnet usage Shepherd

Catie Friend  44:03

dotnet. And on Instagram,

44:05

it's Lucy ships, but also the I will be starting a proper YouTube channel in the coming weeks as well. Well, I'll be sharing tips and advice and chatting to other inventors and things like that.

Catie Friend  44:17

Brilliant. Well, I look forward to that especially as you being a filmmaker your your films are of a higher quality than some other self filmed films we've seen over the years. It's brilliant. I really, really enjoyed having a good old look at those living vicariously through you. Lucy, thank you so much for joining me honestly that it's just brilliant. I'm staring out at the flipping rain again. But thinking Oh, I just want to get out and go on an adventure. So thank you so much for joining me.

44:47

I thank you and then it's got my sort of adventure bug backup by talking about it. So yeah, I can't wait to get out again.

Catie Friend  44:54

Brilliant. Well, all the very best and we will hear more about your adventures. In the years to come, I'm absolutely sure.

45:03

Perfect. Thank you very much.