Chatting to Mireia Miró

Miriea Miró is a former world champion ski mountaineer, the youngest woman to ever hold the title, at the tender age of 22.

She was also a trail runner and a base jumper, constantly chasing the highs, the energy and the intensity.

Following a long battle with knee and gut issues, four years ago she finally hit rock bottom and from there has been on a journey to understand herself, to work on her belief system and ultimately to help others as a life coach.

We talk about her sporting career, the long road to her breakdown, the subsequent self-discovery in coming out the other side, self-care, acceptance, taking action and the importance of talking about mental health.

It’s an inspiring talk with someone who is obviously and rightly proud of the road she has been down. She is upbeat and honest about her struggles and so positive about the future and her enthusiasm for helping other people is evident.

You can contact Mireia on https://www.mireiamirovarela.com/en/ or on Instagram on @mireia_miro

The teachings that Mireia follows are by https://drjoedispenza.com/ and https://www.tonyrobbins.com/

Transcript

Please note transcripts are automatically generated by artificial intelligence and may not be 100% accurate.

“SPEAKERS

Mireia Miro, Catie Friend

Catie Friend  00:02

Hi, welcome to chatting to a friend. I'm Katie Friend. And in this podcast I'm chatting to incredible women about their life experiences and adventures, as well as their thoughts on friendship, community self care, setting boundaries, and how they keep healthy, happy unsane. Today I'm chatting to Maria Mito, former world champion schema engineer turned life coach, we are talking about her sporting career, but more about how about four years ago, after a bit of a breakdown, she decided to rebuild her life and use her own experiences to become a life coach and to help others. A truly inspiring chat. Hi, Maria, how are you?

Mireia Miro  00:45

Hi, thank you. Fine. Good. I'm

Catie Friend  00:47

very, very happy to have you on the podcast we have met on and off over the years very briefly on the skimo World Cup circuit. But it's very nice to talk to you in person.

Mireia Miro  01:00

Yeah. Yeah. It's been now, two, three years that I'm not in the circuit. But yeah, I had been there for a long time, so on and off some years also, but my dad has been a long career in ski mountaineering.

Catie Friend  01:17

Just a little bit of background, a world champion, ski mountaineer and a World Cup winner and a three time peer mentor winner. That's amazing. For those who may not know what the peer mentor is, can you give us a little bit of background?

Mireia Miro  01:30

Yeah, permitted. for the, for the ski mountaineering race. It's a it's more than it's a is more than 2500 metres of elevation gain. And some people compare it like the Tour de France in ski mountaineering.

Catie Friend  01:48

Incredible and you've watched it three times, which is pretty impressive. And, and you're also you've been a trail runner and done some BASE jumping. Did I read on your website?

Mireia Miro  02:00

Yeah. Also also did some BASE jumping.

Catie Friend  02:05

Okay, good. And then so that was a few years ago. Now, as you said, and you're in a new profession, now you are a life coach.

Mireia Miro  02:17

Yeah, I am a life coach, I spent many years in the sport with some good moments with some other moments that were not that good. And finally, yeah, three years ago, all these all these I wouldn't either like the war bad moments, but led me to start exploring more about how the mind war works, how our thinking and behaviours works to create the life that we want to be in the state of being that you want to be. And, and I start diving into all those, all those concepts of And recently, I finally decided to take the leap and use it also. To work to work on it professionally, finally, I was spending. I mean, I've been working on myself every day for the last years. And, and for me, it was kind of really natural to start working professionally on on that. Because I've really developed some skills for myself, and it was a way to put to serve other people on a way that I like to serve.

Catie Friend  03:25

Incredible, amazing how you can take something that happened, it was not so positive and turn it into helping other people. I love that. Could you maybe talk us about through your journey? Because you were very successful schema engineer, as we said, and then you were there. You weren't there. You were on, you're off and then suddenly Not at all. I know you had some knee injuries and and so on. And then I read in Instagram the other day that you About four years ago you were at rock bottom. Can you maybe talk us through the journey from World Class ski mountaineer to really in a in not such a happy place.

04:07

Yeah, yeah, it has been an amazing journey and a lot of ups and downs and as you said, I I start my ski mountaineering career reading a good pace and, and doing really good and and I became ski mountaineering Junior World Champion. And then I became ski mountaineering under 23 World Champion and ski mountaineering senior World Championship all in for five years. It was all very fast, all all the way up to the summit up to the top of the sport, it was really fast and and, and, and I mean, it was kind of natural, right? And then you are up on on a sport that you been putting your life on for the last five years or so. And, and you envision your future and you know, I mean, I was thinking Like, wow, I have a great future in front, right. And I'm now on the top. I'm on the top and senior category with really young age, I was 22 at the time, and I think that I was an I still am the youngest person to win a World Championship in senior category, and it's not. I mean, if I'm wrong, something to me. It's not a problem if I have to, to, to admit that mistake, but I think I think that, that, that I'm, I'm the youngest woman to achieve winning ski mountaineering individual World Championship in senior category and vertical race, right. And I was really young, bright future ahead in the sports and then something goes wrong, right. And, and I at that time, I also start try running in summer, and I was also performing super, super good level, I was winning the races where I was going and and, you know, when your mind starts to arrive to vision and think, wow, I have a Yeah, I have a really great future in front. And then I had a knee injury. And it had to be an injury that could heal fast, but, but I will, I will, I will make the story short, because we can talk about, about all the story for a long time, right, but making the story short, the injury became chronic injury, and then I start getting so frustrated with myself because I wasn't performing at the level I wanted to perform. I wasn't feeling that I was where I wanted to be. And, and, and I was doing at the time, I was doing still good results. But for me, it wasn't enough. It i was i was in such frustration for the situation, I was in that it was kind of eating myself. And, and I start also having that problems. And, and finally on on 2013 I said wow, I cannot hold it anymore, I have to stop and I have to take a break and I have to do something different because my mind is burnt out right I I'm training everyday I have pain I'm starting to develop also got problems and and I'm so frustrated because I'm not performing at the level I want to perform. And I'm saying that I was still being dissolved because I was always on the podium on the World Cups and and the World Champs but it wasn't enough for me. So. So I start the job by jumping at the time and I stopped completely ski mountaineering. And I start by jumping in for me to ask kind of our relief. I always say that, that my life in skinny Anthony was so intense that I I was looking for something super intense to replace it. Yeah. And I love that feeling of kind of, of having. I mean, at that time I started shopping and you start you jump off a cliff and it's a feeling like wow, it's the life and death. It's really seen right the line when you start I mean, I want to explain myself because when you start practising more and knowing more of the sport, I mean, the line is not that thin. But at the beginning there's a feeling right that is there's a feeling that wow, this is for is extreme, and I have to be careful. And I have to be my mind has to be sharp when I practice a sport because it's it's easy if I'm not sharp, sharp minded to get hurt. And I'm, well then I I spend one or two years only dumping and then I still have pain on my knees. I still had problems on my oh my god and and I don't know, how are we? I, I I start again? Well, I know why I know why.

09:02

But I have I started competing in Kenya scrutineering but I have been disconnected for two years and in my physical problems were still there. And in it was impossible I mean was impossible for me to perform at a high level so so I still did two three years more computing on ski mountaineering but it was really frustrating for me to ask for different varying kind of weather when you have seen yourself so in the top to see yourself really far and that you are just not capable. You are just not capable to come back. And and you don't know why that's the worst. You don't know why and you have pain your knees. I had pain in my God, my mind was not working well. So. So really, yeah, there was a moment where I touched the bottom and I start asking myself really, I think that are really profound questions like what am I doing here? Right. What is life? About and, and I always say to a person that is asking these questions that this is a great moment, this is a great moment, because when you start asking yourself these questions, it's a new door for you can open. Right and, and you are at the bottom, you are in a difficult place, you are in a difficult situation. You don't find any sense on anything. You're questioning what is life about and what am I doing here, but it's a great moment to, to take a new direction, a new direction that that is more aligned with our purpose of what we are doing really here. And, and it happened this way. Right on. And on. Four years ago, I I remember one day that I was kind of I'm not a religious person or whatever. Right. But, but I I, at that time, I believe that there's a force that is giving everything life, right. And it's not perfect, because everything is perfect. And nature is perfect. And we are As humans, we are also perfect. And and I asked this, this force this, that I asked for guidance, I really needed something to I really needed some something to tell me that that. Okay, there was a sense of being here. And, and there was a meaning and, and I had to which direction did did I have to follow? And the answer came right. And I start that was the moment. I mean, it was my worst moment. And I remember it really clear. But and I already had been some years before going down right falling to that place. But for me, that was the before and after that, and I won't say that, that everything has been perfect from them. Because it hasn't and I have had to work on myself a lot. I have had to work on it on a deep level also myself. And but there was a complete change, right? That's when when you know that you are really taking a term and you are not taking a kind of okay, I'm, I'm burned out of this. And now I do that? No, I'm not talking about this kind of term in your life. I'm talking of a deeper term.

Catie Friend  12:22

Amazing. And I was I saw I saw, I've got so many questions. I completely understand not that I've ever been a high level athlete or anything like that. But about this time last year, I had, what I sort of described as a nervous breakdown, perhaps wasn't as dramatic is that and that sort of expression doesn't really exist in medicine in medical circles anymore. But I was talking to somebody recently, and they said, she called it a reset. She said you had a reset. And I thought that is the most magnificent word for it. And it describes exactly what you've just said, there's a point before, there's the time before and there's the time after it. And you don't suddenly get better the next day. But it's a point at which you say I have a choice to make here. To help myself get better. Or

13:17

Yeah,

Catie Friend  13:18

to just keep you know, to not live the life I need to live.

13:23

Yeah, yeah, completely and is what you say, right? It's not that the day after everything is fine. But you start the journey, and that moment, you start a different journey. And at least I start a different journey. And I start looking more into the inner world. I start looking more on how I was reacting to, to my environment. How was it was I thinking how was that affecting on how I was feeling and and you start developing a different sense of things and a different perception and a different perspective. And yeah.

Catie Friend  14:04

And so what what were the what were some of the practical things that you did, as a realisation? For example, me when I realised that I really needed to take more care of myself I one of the first things I did was I gave up quite a lot of my commitments, my sort of voluntary commitments, I just said, I can't do it. I started saying, No, I'm sorry, I can't help. What did you have some practical things that you did right there and then to sort of alleviate your anxiety or depression or whatever it was that you felt that you were suffering?

14:37

Yeah, I started meditating. I started with meditation and I started doing Dr. Joe dispenza work i is now third that I would recommend always to everyone. I think that for me, he changed my life. I mean, I mean, I had, you know, I listen to many people and but I really think I really loved the way he explained things and how we, how he, he, he explained really difficult things, very easy for everyone. And I start doing his work daily. And ensure then I have learned from other authors and, and I have, you know, you you are you expand your knowledge expand your but but for me, this was the best work I could have ever done.

Catie Friend  15:30

And what would so what sort of work does he do? Can you give us an example?

15:34

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, yes, he does so many things. And he's, he's so great. But he's neuroscientists, his chiropractor also. And he has many, he has done many research on the brain. And so he bases his work on on meditation and how to rewire your brain through metacognition. And he also explains a lot Well, there are many others that explain that, but but how you're thinking and feeling affects your, your inner state? And how does this affect what you create in your life, right, and that everything that we create Finally, is a projection of who we are being right. And so by rewiring your brain through meditation, you are creating a new state of being, and then that's attracting things. But this is kind of I mean, this is just one part right of his work, because he also explains, I mean, he explains different techniques, he has different types of meditations. And, and for sure, for me, it was really a eye opener, right to all these years. And in kind of, wow, I mean, everything he said, For me had many cells. And I'm not saying that people have to follow him or do their work. I think that what is important is, for me, what was really important is to find an author that speak to me, that I really felt that well, I understand this guy, and I love what he's explaining. And I sticked to his, to his teachings, right, and, because what I see today is that people when they are in crisis, when they, they are so lost, and they start looking here looking there, but but they don't put into practice the knowledge and if they put it, they put it for so short amount of time that they cannot see results. And if you want to see results, when you are in a crisis, you have been, I mean, many time creating these moments. So you have to give also time to get out of it. Right. And people don't have patience to to apply and apply the work of someone.

Catie Friend  17:41

And no, that's absolutely true. Because when I finally reached out for help, I sorted there was a part of me that thought, well, I'll just go and see, you know, the doctor or the nutritionist, and you know, the acupuncturist and then and then at all, I'll be fine, I'll be fine. Because I think a lot of the time Yes, you're right, we are impatient, but we also were hardwired, I think to go Well, yes, well, I certainly am, well, it'll, it'll all be fine. And then, when someone said to me, this is gonna take you about a year, and only if you look after yourself, and you continue to look after yourself to, you know, practice self care, which we all sort of think is having a nice hot bubble bath. But in fact, it's so much more than that. And it's all about, as you say, consistently, eating right, sleeping correctly, you know, saying no, all the things that, you know, putting boundaries in place to protect yourself. Yeah. And

18:40

this remembers me that I, I mean, I was there also, I mean, I spent years years thinking, Okay, I will go maybe one day to the psychologist or two days, and, and it's fine enough, right. And then I yeah, I mean, it was me myself, I wasn't sticking to, to do things, right. I when I want to kind of the miracle solution in one day, one hour, and, and that's fine. Don't bother me anymore, right. And that's not how it works, really. I had to learn it the hard way,

Catie Friend  19:19

I think but I think when you get to that situation, you unfortunately you do have to learn it the hard way. Because as you say, it's taken you a long time to get into that situation. And so, actually, even the coming out the other side, it's hard because you're confronting a lot of beliefs that you've held for a long time, whether that be about eating or relationships or whatever it might be that you know or your body. And so you got to rewire reprogram yourself and these things as you say do not come overnight. So what and in terms of your You said you asked sort of the higher power or whatever the you know, yes, source whatever one believes and yeah, do you feel like you almost had to have permission from somewhere for someone or something higher than you to say it's okay, you can, you can stop the craziness. No. And you can stop the adrenaline and the near life and death and the heart racing and punishing your body. It's okay, no, you can, you can start to look after yourself.

20:35

And I think that if I didn't know, had arrived to that point to that really bottom point, because I was physically I was physically, really, I mean, I had, it was not only my knees, then I had pain in my head in my feet. And also, my, my, all my gods were in a very, I mean, I was in a very bad place physically. And I think that and, and that's also meant, but I think that I hadn't arrived to that place, I wouldn't have taken action that I have done. It was impossible, because I had the opportunity for many times before I had years of opportunities to, to start taking action. And I didn't do it. You know, I had to wait until I was I wasn't my worst place to really say, okay, that's, I mean, that's all, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go beyond where I am now. It's for me to my bottom. And now I have to really take action in a different way. And, and I think that I needed I needed that to take action with how, on on the way I have done it. If not, it would have been impossible, right? And, and, and so with these, I want to say that everything's perfect. I mean, the timing was perfect. It was the perfect moment. I mean, I didn't know how to put words on that. Because now, it's now that I see that at that moment, I didn't have this understanding this perspective, right. But when I see it from now, it's kind of, I understand it. And it has sense for me. And every time it was perfect. Every timing was perfect. And my situation was also perfect.

Catie Friend  22:18

You're absolutely right. You don't you wouldn't take the action, because I had spent a long time saying, oh, if I just eat a bit better if I just maybe do this, you know, I'll just give it another month or I'll just give it another week. And then suddenly, there's that big bam. And you think, okay, know that I can't do this on my own? I can't. I have to, I have to reach out and get help. Do you? Did you have a supportive community around you, friends, family? And do you think that they had noticed that things are getting worse? But it's sometimes difficult to to accept help? Until you notice you really need it?

23:06

I'm kind of a really solitary person solitary, is that English? It is correct. And I get the I have to do a lot of things for myself. And I think that, even me, I didn't realise where I was. I'm realising now because now I'm much better. Right? And when I look back as well, wow, how could I be there? And how could I? I be there for so long time. It's kind of now it's kind of even for me to understand, right? How was that possible? And, and I think that I was the first that I didn't want to, to really accept and look where I was, right. I what I know is I was suffering, I was feeling frustrated and I was feeling all those kinds of, of negative emotions but but I didn't know what to do. I was I mean, I didn't. I was kind of I was kind of inside my box right and, and and, and I couldn't see beyond that. And sure there were friends that that that so how I was but but I have been always a person that I have that I like to decide for myself and where I want and when I want it and I don't like it all that some that someone chooses for me. And so I think that that people can tell you or they can try to tell you but but you have to be the one that realises where you are and and realises that you want something different for yourself. And this is the first step I think that and when you when you when you say I want something different for myself, is not what we are talking right what I've done for years like Something fast and okay. Or I think, I don't know, I don't like my job, it is my job. And so it's kind of a bigger commitment of this inner work, and really taking be taking conscious being conscious of, of what you have been doing until now. And what is not working? What is not working of who you have been being? Right. I don't know if I'm explaining myself.

Catie Friend  25:27

No, you are you absolutely are. And I wondered if you could tell us some of the things that you do do differently now, that have allowed you that perhaps, even though you maybe didn't see the difference straightaway, can know that you can look back? Can you give us sort of other daily habits or their monthly habits? Are there things that you do so very differently now that you think, Why on earth? Was I not doing that before? Yeah, I

25:56

mean, the way I see my own situation, I mean, we all have difficulties in our lives, right? And, and I like I've said this sentence, because this race, because I have heard for so many people from so many people, but but it's pain is is what suffering is optional. Pain is how it is in English, pain is an oblique is obligated, but suffering emotional right? Now, okay, we all have difficulties on our lives. And this is, this is not this is kind of not an option, right? Where we all have difficult times or have challenging situations. But suffering is optional. And this means the way you choose to look at them. And the way you choose to deal with these situations is, is your choice, right? And way you emotionally engaged with these situations, right. And with these, I tend to imagine, and I still have to change a lot. I mean, I'm not where I want to be yet but, but I've changed so much in an item. I mean, I have learned to work a lot of my state of being and, and also to, to, to start questioning my own beliefs. And these are unpredictable, I meditate, I do meditation every day now for three years or so. And I also from time to time, work on my vision and, and my vision in life, and I work on the beliefs or my limiting beliefs that are stopping me to get there. And I do a lot, a lot of inner work for myself. And for example, I don't write every day, but from time to time I like to I like to stop and in tech, which which are my the limiting beliefs that are stopping to anywhere I want to get and what is what I really want. And I believe kind of a techops right. And, but but then it's an everyday practice also. Right. And it's an everyday practice of how do I I, I engage with everything that's happened around me and and i think that I'm more and more much relaxed. And I have had I have learned also, to question my thinking to question my beliefs to don't take things too personally, to don't take things as a punishment. I mean, it's kind of I was really in a victim place. And I see now and I had so many problems, but I was giving them them also because I wasn't a victim state right. I was kind of everything is against me, right? I was kind of getting that life happening of you all these to me, right? This kind seems the world has made a complaint against me. Working, nothing was working. And I had that feeling that nothing was working because for me nothing was working right. But but but when you understand that it's not the welcome plotting against you that that you have the power to decide how you want to feel how you want to think how you want to show up in your life, which direction direction you want to take in your life, then things start to change.

Catie Friend  29:12

It's incredible, because you talked a lot in there about beliefs and limiting beliefs. It's something that I've been learning a lot about recently, and it's absolutely extraordinary. How much of your beliefs come from your childhood, how your parents were, what you know, not suggesting anybody, anything bad about one's parents, anyone's parents just that that's what they believed to be the truth or the case. And presumably, you as a young athlete, you must have had coaches as well. And you know, you you soak in so much of what other people believe to be true. And it's so extraordinary when you finally think actually, I don't think I do believe that anymore. I I choose to go this way. that subject.

30:01

Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. Now, and and, uh, you know, one other thing. Other thing that I have learned from this time is that I'm not always right. I mean, it's, it's been my way of thinking it's my, another person have its way of thinking and everything is perception is the way you are, you are making the interpretation of what's happening, right. And in our belief system is I mean, our minds 95% unconscious and 5% conscious, right and on our legal basis, so, so we are operating from the, from the unconscious part almost all day. And our unconscious part of the mind is made up of all these beliefs that that have been made from experience from our parents from how we grew, and, and all that stuff, right. And once you start, once you start being curious about them, and once you start digging more into them, you realise that you are the one that you are, I mean, you are seeing the world through your own story. And you are telling your own story of the world, right and of things. And I see these a lot when, for example, when two people break when a couple breaks one plane, one lorry and the other a completely different one. And, and they have both been the same situation. And you would say, Wow, this seems kind of a different, completely different story. Right?

Catie Friend  31:31

Yeah. Have you? Well, they always say there's always three versions of the truth. Yeah, one person's version, the other person's version? And then what actually happened?

31:41

Yeah, completely. Yeah, that's it. That's it. And, and once person's version, and the other person's version is made of their own beliefs, right. And, and I think that it's a very interesting subject, right. And I've worked a lot also myself on that. And I'm saying, right, I still have this feeling that I have still a lot to work, it's kind of now it's good. For me, it's kind of an endless, and it's worth working on, on your mind and on your, on your belief system on yourself. And on your connection also to the world.

Catie Friend  32:15

It's really interesting, you say that, because I feel a little bit the same, and I'm a little bit earlier in my journey than you. You know, it's not it's not it's only been a year, since I had my sort of reset, as we will call it. And, and, but I sometimes, I don't know about you, I sometimes get a little bit overwhelmed by the whole, you know, challenging my beliefs or trying to change the way I deal with things. Because sometimes I think, oh, it would just be really nice to just not go back to the way it was. But you know, I just wish it were easier, or I wish that I didn't have to think about this all the time. How do you help people with that sort of big, you know, because there is, it's good to start to challenge yourself, but sometimes you presumably just need to give yourself a break.

33:07

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Totally, totally. And sometimes, you just need to relax and accept accepting, right when, when you start doing this work, sometimes you get too caught, too caught up on it, and I'll explain myself is not about to get cut, cut up on it, but I work with some some clients that I do some sessions and I tell them, Hey, this is not now for you to judge yourself and in and have a mean and overwhelm yourself because we will be on the same place that you were right and, and sometimes you just need to relax and in, okay, I, okay, I've been working for some time, now I have to integrate over what I have worked and, and, and also realise that when you start being overwhelmed, you start being on a place where you don't want to be and, and the solution is okay, I can lead myself to stop doing right. It's, I don't have to do doo doo doo doo all the time I I can lend myself to stop doing and just maybe take a day or so of being an acceptance of Who am I and being on a state of gratitude, gratitude and right and just take the day easy and and just let go right let go in a in a gratitude state and acceptance for and when I say acceptance, I also talk about acceptance for yourself. Right? Because I mean, finally, we are all doing I mean, it's kind of I don't know what the feeling is but but to to also to congratulate yourself for the work you're doing.

Catie Friend  34:53

Quite I totally agree. I could not agree more. That sometimes you just have to say well done me I say that to me, honestly, I say that to myself every time I meditate. And every time I managed to do some yoga, I say, well done me. Well done. Because you think I took the time out of my day to do this thing that I know will make me feel better.

35:17

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. We are. Sometimes we are so much in the doing mode that we just forget to stop and say, Hey, you did good today?

Catie Friend  35:28

Yeah. And do you think having been a professional sports person has helped in in a in your own journey? Or has it been difficult because being a sports person means that you are presumably fairly results focused? You are quite driven? You know, we talked earlier about, you know, wanting results right now? Or do you think, do you think that it has given you more understanding? Because, you know, you know, that you can't go from sitting on the couch to being World Champion just like that? Or do you think it's hard because impatience to be good and have results and see tangible things? and makes it more difficult?

36:09

Yeah, I think that in some things, it has been good. I mean, some things, it has been more difficult. And, and, you know, I, I, I wasn't, I think that I still am very stubborn. And so change for me change in a deep level. It has been for me, it has been, I mean, it has been a slow process. Because I my time, right. And you did me that easy, right? I need to understand and I need to apply and I experience and Okay, it's not maybe the way I I imagined but on the other side, I I committed to it. Right. And I have been very disciplined. And I have I, I have learned and I am still learning to trust to trust the process. Right. And, and I think that in some things have been very helpful. And in some others have, it's been very difficult. Because, yes, and at the beginning, I remember that I wanted results fast. And even when I started meditating, I thought, Okay, I'm gonna start meditating. And when I arrived, where I want to be, I'll stop, right? People and I want to say that because many people I for many people that wants to start meditating, meditating, because they want to solve one problem. So they want to meditate for one week, and the problem will be gone. Yeah, either. Right. And, and, and yeah, now I can love about it. And but I remember that, yeah. When even when I started meditating, for me, plus a lot of results and in, and now I'm relaxing, more and more. And, and I have also seen that, that when you are first in the results, it's more difficult than they come. But when you relax, and you, you focus yourself more in the process, then things come.

Catie Friend  38:01

Exactly, no, I couldn't agree more. Do you feel? I mean, it's a it is so important, I feel that we talk about these things, because it is, especially now in the crazy times that we're living in where people are, you know, mental health is such a huge part of this whole global pandemic. How do you How are you going about talking about this more, I see you on your, on your Instagram, and you're doing podcasts and interviews and so on? Is how important is that for you?

38:37

Yeah, for me, it has become my life. And, and it's the place where I find sense, where I find more and more sense to everything, right, and being able to work with people and to help through their difficulties and help them see different perspectives to their problems and different solutions to their problems. For me, it's so fulfilling, it's so fulfilling, because I have this feeling that I'm contributing that I'm contributing in a really positive way because I can see changes with the people that I work with, and just have this feeling that I am growing, because I'm growing every day and unconsciously every day through the people that I work with through the my own work that I do with myself and and I also think that now is such an important time. An important time. The world is kind of upside down. Yeah, look at the world from outside you would say well, these people are crazy. Right and, and, and many people are going through through through this kind of awakening process. I mean, you can use the word one I I even I don't mind a lot of the words people use but but these crisis that brings that kind of a deeper realisations and and i think that it's really great time, right and it's a really great time because all these Working in and this is what doctors are teachers, right is how to how do you want to feel independently? Or on what is going outside? Right? And what do you want to create and, and what we are seeing in the world is also our creation, right? It's never self so. So it's to ourselves to change that. And, and it's not. For me it's not through taking action on the door, it's an inner wall and in, in going on a deeper level to realise what is important, right. And and from where do you want to act? This is what is important from where am I acting? Right?

Catie Friend  40:39

Absolutely. And I think it's so so important that people, especially now today, in this crazy world, they know that they're not alone that other people are going through these journeys. Nobody's journey is exactly the same. But it's, it's the principle is the same. You know that we are all under enormous amounts of pressure in the modern world, especially in the current global crisis, as you say. And I think talking about this, it took me a while to be comfortable talking about it, I don't know about you, I told my closest friends when it happened, but I'm now very comfortable. And I think it's important because I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of, or embarrassed about. You know, it just makes you realise that the person next to you is suffering or could be suffering, and you don't know about it. So, you know, it's the old adage of, you know, in this world where you can be anything be kind?

41:37

Yeah, and, and yeah, and it took a long time for me also to talk about it and, and I thought, well, what will people seeing that they will, they will think that I'm crazy of doing things like right wing, I mean, I mean, for people that have grown maybe in, in an ambience where they talk about energy, they talk about spirituality, they talk about all these kind of things, different but I, I grew up and all my friends and anyone was into those kinds of things. Right? And, and at the beginning, it was a little bit difficult because it's, it's okay, I'm talking about something really different in in an end, at the beginning, I knew that for me, this work was important in our work. And I knew that not everyone would approve it. So So at the beginning, I told very few people because I really wanted the people that I knew that could support me, it was really important for me at that moment to grow strong, to be able then to don't care about what other people thought right at the beginning, I was not at that point. And I cared about what other people thought so. So once I grew strong, like, okay, I don't care anymore, what other people were seeing, and I start opening myself and I think that I can open myself much more because what I put in social media, I still have kind of a break sometimes like, okay, don't go do don't go to too much. Right. And, and I feel it and I know it. And I think that it's my own process, right? Because it's my own beliefs. I either it's my own beliefs, but it's my journey also. And, and I think that it's really beautiful to see, right how this process how you open yourself with with time, right at the beginning, you won't do it, and then you start sharing a little bit, and then you start sharing more, and then people get interested on it. And, and you know, and the thing starts get bigger and bigger and bigger. Right. And and I think that it's kind of a Yeah, it's kind of this opening process is also kind of a, it's kind of, I remember the book of The Little Prince. When when there's this Fox, he knows this Fox, right? And, and he says okay, they start seeing each one from apart from the other. And each day they were getting closer, right and, and, and I feel that it's kind of this process, right? Okay. I have to learn to to gain trust and I have to learn to be interesting myself, not nothing other people in myself and and this is a process until I feel comfortable measure more and more and more. And until the point that I don't care at all what other people think i i i go for it.

Catie Friend  44:24

No, quite right. I love I love that analogy about the Fox and the Little Prince. I might use that. Do you have a life coach of your own? Do you have somebody that you talk to still about your process?

44:37

Yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah, I know work also as a life coach. But But I think that and I've been working doing work on myself, but I think that I have I have had a coach or a life coach for two years because I think that there are some situations that you did for me at least that you need someone to take off your perspective and help you step off from your your perspective. And for me, I've done a lot of things by myself but, but there's a point that that I've needed kind of super from someone watching externally and with no judgement and, and it has helped me a lot. And it was one of the reasons why I decided to go also for life coaching I I've known I work, I've worked with one life coach, and I still work with with him, but I've known other many life coach years, and I really love the work they do, and how do they accompany people? Right? And it's a different kind of, I mean, sure, nowadays, there are many life coach schools and, and I think that that the important thing is that you can connect with the person that's, that's the most important thing but, but for me, life coaching has given me has given me the tool to to accompany people in a way that I really like and I feel comfortable with and and I trust because it seems I've done it myself. And, and in life coaching I did. Tony Robbins certificate. Yeah. And Tony is one of the best coaches in Wisconsin, he's considered one of the best coaches in the world. And I did his certification for that, because I thought if I want to do life coaching, I want to learn and want to be sure that I learned from from the best, right, and after is how you apply it, right? Not everyone is studying from, from the best colour and at the same level, right. But then it's how you apply it and how you how you transform it on a way that you feel comfortable doing it. But, but, um, and also, I mean, I don't stop studying. I study almost every day. And I read almost every day, but but I love I love how life coaching approach approach problems. And I've used a lot of my, a lot of myself, it has helped me a lot. And that's what I chose to do life coaching.

Catie Friend  47:08

Amazing. Well, I, I could keep talking to you for hours and hours. I just had one last point, which was, you know, about on the coaching side of things, people may hesitate to take on something like a life coach, but it's it always strikes me as extraordinary because, you know, you were a world champion in your chosen sport. And yet you still had a coach, you know, Celine Dion, one of the most prolific and successful singers in the world still has a voice coach. So why would you not have a coach for something as important as the only life you're ever going to lead?

47:49

Yeah, yeah, completely. I completely agree. And, and going back to Tony Robbins, he has coach people like, like Serena Williams, and Bill Clinton and Opera. Right. And you say, these are the most successful people in the world? How? How do they have a life coach and, and being successful doesn't mean that you don't have you don't need to burn you don't need I mean, I mean, people, people, I think that people wait too much before asking for help. And they see it like, like, they see like a bad thing as a weakness. Yeah, yeah, like a weakness. Right. That's the word. That's the word. And that's not it. Right? It's, I mean, it's, it's, it's being able with a goat is like it's tapping into your own potential and learning to use it more effectively. Right. And, and it can be when you have a problem and but you don't have to have a problem. Maybe you have a vision, and you know, how to get to that vision. And, and I think that people have at least here where where I am. People have many barriers when when asked when asking for help. But on the other side, I have to say that say that many people that I work with have told me I would have never gone to come to see up psychologist because I think that it's too much

49:13

when they feel comfortable.

Catie Friend  49:16

Well, I think there's there's an element of practicality with a coach, I think that appeals certainly appeals to me. Because you know, it's all very well talking and talking and talking and talking about stuff. But at some point for me personally, I like someone to say, Well, how do you think you might deal with that? Or what is stopping you from doing this or you know, this sort of asking of the questions and the practical maybe there's a plan to be made rather than just rehashing old hurts

49:50

and resentments are Sure, sure. And, and these are also I enjoy I enjoy so much my job because one day I'll be helping someone Planning, organising putting priorities on the life. Some other day, I'll be happy helping someone to go through some limiting beliefs and blockage. And and, and this is so beautiful this is so beautiful because I can I can accompany the person in their hole right and and we have to stop thinking that one person is one problem in a specific area of their lives. I mean, I mean, I mean, and and for example, for example when I think about one example about that is, for example, Tiger Woods when there was a time where he wasn't doing good performances in golf, and everyone was saying what's happening with him what's happening with him and the problem was not in golf, the problem was in his life. And yeah, and sometimes we, you know, we get so so. So we miss miss understand the thing, right? It's not the problem in my job, it's not the problem with my partner, it's not the problem. I don't know, in whatever, it's my, it's, it's my own personal problem that I'm manifesting manifesting through this through my job through my partner's through. And I think that coating, it just has, it's a really beautiful way to work on these problems in a, in a way, you know, as you were saying kind of in a with empowerment of the person and action taker. Right. Yeah. And we are gonna, we are gonna, we are gonna face that. And, and we are gonna work, we are going to work on that.

Catie Friend  51:38

Right? Absolutely. I I just love it. I think it's so as you say empowering and it opens up so much of life that perhaps, you know, somebody may not have thought of before, because of limiting beliefs because of circumstances and so on. And yeah, I think what you're doing is absolutely amazing. And I congratulate you on using the sort of the down and dark sides or parts of your life and your journey to help other people. I think that's absolutely incredible. How can we get hold of you? what's your website?

52:16

Well, my web website is, you know, to write my name, Miyamoto varela.com

Catie Friend  52:24

I will put it in the show notes, so everybody can read it properly.

52:29

They're perfect. Yeah,

Catie Friend  52:30

and we can get hold of you on Instagram as well.

52:33

Yeah, yeah, Instagram is Malaya Midori,

Catie Friend  52:37

I will also put that in the show notes. And you are available. And obviously you speak very good English. So available to help in English and in Spanish.

52:47

Yeah, yeah. Not in Catalan.

Catie Friend  52:50

Also in Catalan, yeah, yeah. Oh, amazing. Well, there you go three, three languages, and to speak, and to, to coach and, and so on. Thank you so much for joining me. I know you have to go. But I'm really so grateful for your time. It has been absolutely brilliant talking to you.

53:10

Thank you. Thank you, to you for for having me in, in this interview. And yeah, it was pretty nice to talk about this topic. I think that it was the first time they really did an interview like that, talking more about these topics, because many times people want to know why. Well want to know another kind of have questions more related to sports. And it's super nice to be able to talk about where I am now. What am I doing? And how are I arrive here? Because everything has has its own story. Right. And, and as I mean, many people have

Catie Friend  53:47

have really interesting stories. And it's really great when you can talk about it. It is and that is the purpose of my podcast is to talk to people about their amazing stories. So thank you for sharing yours. I really, really loved it. And we will speak very soon, I

54:01

hope. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Bye Bye.”

Chatting to Lucy Shepherd

In the 4th episode I am chatting to Lucy Shepherd, professional explorer and adventurer. Can you imagine that was your job title?

At only 28 years old, she has been at this for a decade and in that time has been on expedition from the Arctic to the Amazon on foot, on skis and always in extreme conditions.

Obviously, the chat centres around adventuring and sticky, near death situations and how to survive for two weeks on the side of a mountain in a snowstorm (by keeping busy, is the answer!)

We also touch on, however, how to cope with post-expedition blues, how the world views a young woman who has decided to make this her career and how she feels about the future of our planet that she cares so deeply about.

A funny, insightful and enthusiastic chat with some deeper messages for us all about how to bring a sense of pride and achievement into your life on a daily basis.

At 23, Lucy was made a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society and is currently the youngest board member on the board of the Scientific Exploration Society, both titles she holds with great pride.

You can find more about Lucy on her website www.lucyshepherd.net, including information on how to go on expedition with her to the Arctic in 2021.

You can also follow her on Instagram on @lucysheps

Transcript

Please note that transcripts are automatically generated by articifical intelligence and may not be 100% accurate.

“SPEAKERS

Catie Friend, Lucy Shepherd

Catie Friend  00:02 In the fourth episode, I'm chatting to Lucy Shepherd, professional explorer and adventure. Can you even imagine that that was your job title. So cool. at only 28 years old. She has been at this for a decade and in that time has been on expedition from the Arctic to the Amazon, on food on skis. And always, in extreme conditions have funny, insightful and enthusiastic chat with some deeper messages for us all about how to bring a sense of pride and achievement into your daily life. At 23. Lucy was made a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society and is currently the youngest board member of the scientific exploration society, both titles she holds with great pride. Hi, Lucy, thanks for joining me today.

Lucy Shepherd  02:38

Hi, thank you very much for having me.

Catie Friend  02:39

It's very exciting to have you on I'm just been reading your website and it's it's so exciting. It's just like a girls on adventure list of amazing places and things to do around the world.

Lucy Shepherd  02:51

Ya know, I like to I definitely like to get around.

Catie Friend  02:54

And so as I said in my intro, 28 years old, but already a decade of exploring and adventuring under your belt. Can you give us well, I'm going to do a quick rundown of what I have understood the Arctic Alps, Norway, Bolivia, the Amazon, Iceland, Russia, Alaska, I'm sure there are more. But you know, so lots of different types of adventure. So ski mountaineering, cross country skiing, tracking, even adventure racing, which is a whole myriad of adventures in itself. Could you give me your top three, and why they were so exciting.

Lucy Shepherd  03:30

I'll give it a go. The ones that come to mind, I mean, the most recent expedition, luckily, I managed in 2020 to get away. At the start of this year, I did a big Trek and traverse across a part of the Amazon rainforest. And it was just me and five other Amerindian guys. And it was just such a special expedition for many reasons. One of the way nothing like that had been done before the dynamic between myself and the Amerindians was very, very special. And the jungle was always somewhere that I never found very well, no one finds it comfortable. But I out of all the sort of disciplines and areas and environments, I always found it quite intimidating. But this time, I felt like you know, I'd cracked it. And now I can't wait to get back to the jungle. And that sort of opened up, you know, endless possibilities now. So that was a very, very, very good expedition. And also one that I thought was going to be quite a small adventure last year. Ski mountain aired across the high Sierras and it was just myself, my climbing partner and boyfriend Tim, and also one of our very good friends who we climbed Denali with Matt. And we originally saw it was going to be sort of a short you know, less than a week, adventure skiing these beautiful mountains climbing up so the straightforward just east west, and it was anything but it was so treacherous, treacherous. There was so many things that came out of that and there were times that were really That one, we might not make it ourselves. But to you know, we might we may have had to turn around and things like that. And as a result, it just became such a proud moment. And I think our, our sort of team spirit together was something that I really hold closely in my, in my heart, it was such a such a great experience. And it's always best when you share things. I'm a strong believer of that. And I suppose the final final number three, what would that be, I think, probably my first ever expedition because that kick started it all. And that was to Svalbard for 10 weeks in up in the Arctic. And that was sort of the first time I realised that this is something that something that I was relatively good at something that I was very eager to learn more about. And that just started it all. Really 10 weeks of the Arctic's does that T,

Catie Friend  05:51

that's incredible. 10 weeks from from never having experienced it before. You just said that you knew you were good at it. What does that mean? How does one know that one is good at adventuring, and, you know, living in remote parts of the world?

Lucy Shepherd  06:05

I think if you enjoy it, if you enjoy aspects of it, that other, you know, are challenging, but you take that you take that on board, and you enjoy that part of it as much as the other part. You accept that as part of it, then that's a real good, that's a good starting point, I think. And I'd never you know, I've never been particularly good at anything much really growing up. And then at 18, I went off to this Arctic expedition. And I'd always been a fan of the likes of when he started when I was a teenager in a bear grylls no one really knew of him. And I was reading these books and that, you know, opened the doors to run, I'll find some people like that. And I've read all these books, and I've read these this word expedition. And his word expeditions have sounded so magical and mysterious. And I didn't I was at the age where I didn't really think that that was something that I could do or that people even still did expeditions. And then I think it was age 1617 saw an advert in the paper for this 10 week spellbind expedition. And it said expedition and I sort of said, You know, I can go on an expedition, but that has sort of created this imagination, and excitement and enthusiasm, just even preparing for something like that, because that's as much as the of the adventure as the adventure itself. Isn't that you know, there's a lot of preparation. Absolutely. So, ya know, as soon as I was on an expedition with myself, I felt like I was sort of in a storybook.

Catie Friend  07:35

That is incredible. Because you do think these days, there must be nowhere in the world that people haven't gone before an expedition sort of, as you say, especially as a youngster perhaps but even though you'd think, Oh, really? Is there anything people haven't done or haven't been at sort of conjures up men and woollen suits and dying on the side of the Eiger, that kind of thing? Yeah. And so how do you come up with what you want to do? Because obviously, that was something you saw and you joined, but presumably, do you set your own agenda as much as possible?

Lucy Shepherd  08:09

Yeah, I mean, that was the only one really, that was sort of pre organised, you know, expedition. And ever since then, I realised that I wanted to go to the places that were more remote. And, you know, that people hadn't done it necessarily done before very few had. And I think for me, when I'm trying to decide I get, I get a sort of gut feeling and something in my heart, I suppose that this urgency when I've decided, like, that's it, I've got to go very quick at deciding where I want to go. And then I don't like it to be very much sort of too long from the preparation point to going. So if it's very remote, that's a big part. If I haven't heard of it, that's a big bonus. There's lots of lots of places or areas in countries that I've never heard of. And then if it's got a big journey, which attracts me, but for I mean, you say that people do think that there's nothing left to explore there. So I mean, as you know, so untrue. There are so many parts of wealth, the sea, the ocean is the obvious one, but then even the jungles where I was in the Amazon. Yes, people had been in and out of that area, but no one there was no records or anything. And I was with our Indians who they were under the impression that no one had done what we were doing. We were going into that whole expedition, not knowing how long it would take. It was very unknown. We ever soon as we stepped foot into that deep jungle, it was very much like okay, this is up to us. This is we just have to take each day as it goes. And by doing that, you know, it would be very demoralising. If you actually had a proper plan, because the jungle throws everything at you. Yeah, there'd be days where you're only doing two kilometres when you use that's it. It's ridiculous and you say two kilometres In 810 hours, but you just have to just have to roll with it and accept that that's the kind of thing that the jungle environment leads to.

Catie Friend  10:08

Do you think that? I mean, Have you always been a patient person, there must be an element of patience in these sorts of urgency crossed with patients, because as you say, two kilometres in eight hours is sown, soul destroying, but perhaps you as you say, you have to roll with it and understand that that in itself is an achievement. Yeah, I

10:30

know, I would, I would classify myself as a patient person. And just know if you know, if something is out of your control, then you have to accept that with everything. And that goes with weather conditioning conditions, when you're climbing that goes with like, how you're feeling. I mean, if it's something so bad that you can't control it, then you just have to calculate what you can control and figure out what you what you can do from then on, and then go from there everything.

Catie Friend  10:58

Yeah, talking of which I read on your website about having been stuck in a tent for two weeks on the side of Denali.

Lucy Shepherd  11:05

Yes,

Catie Friend  11:06

that sounds insane. People say that.

Lucy Shepherd  11:10

I like honestly, that, that two weeks, I really it just bled into what I can't remember being that board at all. It's very strange. I think I was a bit delirious.

Catie Friend  11:20

Tell us about that. What How did that come about? And how did you feel? And how did you keep up morale and all that sort of stuff?

Lucy Shepherd  11:27

Well, Denali is so denied in Alaska. And it's known for having these mega storms. And myself and three others, three friends who has a team of four, started planning this expedition. And I sort of took on quite a lot of the logistics side of things. And everything I was reading about not only capturing when these storms that last, you know, they can last days. And sometimes they would even last 10 days or something like that. And I was reading this and but then I found it a bit confusing that a lot of teams, when they went, they would only take sort of 21 days of food, so they would expect it. And that would be allowing for, you know, a storm. But that didn't make much sense to me. Because if you want us to give your best, your best crack at the mountain, need to take as much food as you possibly can. In case this happens. Especially as you know, you take a sled or poke halfway up the mountain anyway. Okay, and before you start the climb, and so we decided to take as much food as we could possibly take, which I think was 32 days in the end. So 11 more days, 11 days more than others would take. And would you believe it, as soon as we set off, it's bright blue sky, and it's beautiful weather, you know, cold, we're freezing, but just lovely. And then we think we're going quite slow to go this food. And then we reach 14,000 foot camp, and the weather starts to roll in. And it starts to get in minus 40. And then the winds start to pick up and then snow starts to come and you're constantly digging out your tent. Because it's just, you know, you're getting you keep sinking into the snow so much and getting piles of snow on top of you. And then the days just started rolling by and rolling by and you know, other teams were really struggling and having to risk going back down the mountain because they didn't have enough food. Or they would be starving attend knowing that as soon as the sun came out that they would have to go down instead of going up. But yeah, we were sort of happy as Larry just sitting sitting in our tent, eating our rations, having a rest. I donate to it. I mean two weeks in it's one of the hilleberg tents so I mean, if you're on Denali is so cold if you're not moving, it's frighteningly cold so you're either in your sleeping bag or doing something otherwise it's just a bit of a panic quick. Okay, so yeah, just spent a lot of my time either digging out the snow or melting a lot of snow because it takes a long time to melt the water for your food and melt the snow sorry for your food and water. Or Yeah, in my sleeping bag. But

Catie Friend  14:03

it sounds like excellent preparation for lockdown beings.

14:08

right a lot of napping.

Catie Friend  14:12

Amazing and and relationships between the team were fine. Everybody played their part. Nobody freaked out. Yeah, I

14:20

mean, so I was in a tent with Tim and then there were the other tent had to Matt and will. And there would be days went by that we didn't actually see them well, but we'd be shouting to them through the walls. And yeah, I think everyone was just as patient and accepting You know, this is, this is where we are. We knew this was going to be tough. You know, the best as long as everyone is okay and healthy. And that's the most important thing and I am definitely very keen or I always go with like minded team members. No egos just don't exist, that that can't be a thing. I cannot go with people who you know, will go go gung ho and will do Anything to reach that summit or whatever. So I think as long as we're all caring for each other, and everyone's looking after each other, and you know, if someone needs to stop, and whether it be a blister or adjusting something that will make whatever we're doing the climb or ski more comfortable than they do it. And I think we make, I think setting that out early on expectations is very, very important, then you can't really go wrong.

Catie Friend  15:25

It is very important to understand how you behave under duress I yeah, I have experience of that. Not two weeks on the side of a mountain, I hasten to add, but so you've mentioned a couple of times, already. So when you felt near death, and how you feel about that, because I also read your report about the or I heard what you talking about the first time you were in Ghana, and they were stoked by the Jaguar? Obviously, you and I watched your video about being in the high Sierras. And you know, some sketchy moments I know mountains and I know the fear of thinking. I don't know if we will get out of this. Yeah. And obviously there have been other times perhaps you didn't feel near death on Denali, but it must have started to feel like a flipping long time being stuck there. What do you do? Do you have self talk? Do you distract yourself? How do you cope with that level of this could be it.

16:23

I think a lot of it comes down to before I even leave. So I spend a lot of my time. As soon as I've decided on the expedition, I spend a lot of my time mentally preparing. I'm not it's not so much on purpose, but I do it. I think I do it naturally I start to think okay, what will it feel like if this happens, or if we are on the side of a mountain, and we have misjudged it, and it's avalanche risk or, you know, wild animals or things like that. So I stopped putting daydreaming and putting myself in that scenario. And thinking, you know, how would I cope. And I think I always sort of kept the same way I sort of go, Oh, I thought this would happen, or I didn't actually think this would happen. But now it's happening, I better get on with it. And it's happened, it does happen quite a lot. And I think the only time where I've really started to think this is this is too much and start to feel bad for my family and the people that you leave behind was when I was climbing in Tajikistan, and because everything about that just felt wrong. I'm very strong believer about trusting your gut and trusting your instinct. And if it's all been fine up until a small point, then there's like, like I was talking about earlier, you know, it's out of your control, you know that you go to these places. And there are these risks. And you take that sort of accepting factor and being focused and just doing what you can to eliminate any risks. But if you've had that I can take gigas down, I had a constant bad feeling about the whole thing that I guess gives you more time to think about it. And that guilt and sort of, yeah, just thinking I did it. This is not a place where I want to die.

Catie Friend  18:03

Strange, you should mention that I've actually heard other people who have been in these situations very, very real near death, on expeditions or on adventures. And that is what they think about they think about the people that they love and what a disaster this will be for them. Not about I'm gonna die. That Yeah, just thinking about thinking, Oh, man, it'd be terrible. Yeah, like, What

18:30

a shame. Because I think I actually had the most recent one because I did the Amazon this year. And there was there was one day in particular, that was absolutely terrifying. But because there was so much to think about on that day, and to make sure I didn't die. I there wasn't much time to think like that. But actually, when I've completed that expedition, I had to get a very, very small plane back to the city, which I've done before, and it's been absolutely fine. But in my gut, there was something wrong about this plane. And I've been on helicopters that just I later found out that the pilots who are flying it were not actually pilots. And this I started to get a similar feeling and the weather came in. And suddenly it was that the monsoon weather in the cloud with mountain jungle mountains everywhere and the plane was jumping all over the place. And I was just thinking, you know, cross this whole mountain. Now I'm gonna you know, we've been celebrating that completed this expedition now for goodness sakes, I think and then just started to think how are those people that came I remember trying to put my iPod on and I was like, chasing the music thinking this will take my mind off it. That's an unbelievable amount of music that has the word fall, or goodbye or you know, it's lovely to him. It's been lovely to be here. Now it's time to go and things like that. I just couldn't get it.

Catie Friend  19:59

And so you will just build up a huge amount of sort of adrenaline and cortisol. And, and I know from my own sort of adventures that there's there are two sides to that disappearing one is the sort of post event blues of, well, normal life feels a bit dull. Yeah. And obviously, there's a slight, sometimes there's a slight relief that, well, all the planning and all the journey and all that everything is over. And I can just sort of sit and drink a cup of tea. Yeah. But also, you know, that sort of stuff builds up in your system, you know, and it can become a addictive and be not terribly good for you, because there's that all the, you know, the sympathetic, parasympathetic nervous system where your body is in constant fight or flight because it's so used to the adrenaline hits, how do you come down from events or events, expeditions and stuff so that you feel safe and ready and healthy enough to start again? Well,

20:58

I think, because of from my first expedition to Svalbard, and when I came back from that I hit the sort of post expedition blues, like you talked about, like, I hit it hard. And because I've never really experienced that before, and I mean, it was the stuff sort of eating disorder, I was very miserable to be around, you know, I started getting addicted to running to fill that gap and things like that. So I, for about, you know, six months, to then lemonade sort of lasted for a couple of years, really? I had this feeling of Wow. You know, because everyone kept saying about that expedition, you know, Wow, what an amazing once in a lifetime experience. And they say that when you get back, and to hear that, after you finish something, as if that's it, you know, that's the best it can be like, now you're off to university and get a real job. Yeah, real life starts now.

21:53

And they

21:54

kept saying that, like, you know, refuse to believe that that would be the case, and I never wanted to, you know, join the military or anything like that. So that wasn't an option, then that seemed like the only option, you know, from the people that you read about you do this thing. So I did accept that that might be that might be it, and I have to find my find the kick elsewhere. But it was actually sort of meeting Neal Norton, who I know is a mutual friend of ours, he gave me this sort of self belief that actually, I could take this further, and I could keep doing it. When I saw that he was still doing it, you know, he'd been doing things, you know, all the time, that gave me the confidence to believe that actually, you know, there is this whole world out there of people doing these things met, I can tap into it, I just have to figure out how to fundraise, I have to figure out how to get the skills and go from them. And so now every time I returned from an expedition, I prepare myself for it. And I sort of reflect on I sort of start to relive it. And I also film every expedition. And so by filming it, I then come back. And when I get back a few weeks after I get back, I'll start editing it and go through the footage, and I sort of relive it that way.

Catie Friend  23:08

So yeah, I start sort of post processing it

23:12

there. And you start to think because because you're so on edge, the whole not on edge, but you're so alert and thinking about the present constantly, when you're there, you don't actually realise what an incredible experience it was until you get back.

Catie Friend  23:25

Seems a bit of a shame, doesn't it? is proper type to fun

23:30

100% type deal?

Catie Friend  23:34

And when do you often get asked? Do you still get asked? When are you going to get a real job? When are you going to settle down? When are you going to you know, because you've been doing this for decades. So you've pretty much proved that this is a something you can do are good at but also that you can sustain a life doing? Do you still get asked about that?

23:53

I mean, I think it depends it's very much a reflection of the person if they're asking it now. So if they are you know, I think you don't really get our pity in that same world if that sort of thing. So when you're going to like push it like they presume that as soon as you start family or something like that, then that's it you stop was like, when's that ever been the case for you know, men never met have never been asked her. So, I mean, I remember my parents for comfort for the first couple years start to think you know, this can't last forever. And then things started to come from it and skill level went up and actually now they they look at the pictures when I get back and they realise Oh, they have for some time they realise that the smile on my face on those pictures i can't i it's not the same smile as it is in in day to day life. It's definitely a very, very happy proud you they smile out there. You can't hide the outdoors.

Catie Friend  24:51

That sounds amazing. And in terms of friendships, obviously now you have a very firm well I hope you have a firm base of friendship base. On your adventures and people that you can do these sorts of things with, but at the age of 18, when you decided to sort of take on this thing, or when you were leaving University saying, Yeah, I'm just going to go off and tackle the world. Yeah, did people? You know, you you mentioned you touched on the once in a lifetime opportunity? Did? Did you have friends who got it? Or was it just quite hard to find people who weren't? You know, I've heard before of adventurers and explorers and things saying that people got a little bit. No, well, I'm settling down to real life. So you should be too and there's a kind of envy and a little bit of, you know, not it's not much fun, because there's this sort of clash between what they think they should do and what you that you want to do. Yeah, I

25:42

mean, I think for a while, people, a lot of people thought it was just sort of an extended holiday, which really, really got to me, because it's like, well, I know what you're saying, because it's it, you know, for me, it is something that I get secondary enjoyment from, but it's also a sort of career and lifetime thing that I'm doing. And I would I think I'm very I'm a firm believer about, you know, I think people have talked about this before, but people are either drains, or radiators, I think is the idea. So the people who can either drain the energy from you, and you really feel it if I start talking about some expedition, and I very rarely will start talking about expeditions, because I am aware that people and the, you know, the wrong sort of people don't want to hear about them. I don't want to have you know, I don't want to share anything with people. People aren't interested at all, of course. But if someone sucks the energy out of you, then you have to question why you know why hanging around with them in the first place, you should definitely we should all try to radiate energy and give off enthusiasm and try and motivate others. So as I guess, it started to make me think, you know, who am I friends with? And who are my closest pals? You know, if they're encouraging for this, because they see it's something that I can't really live live without them. And that's, that's what you want, really?

Catie Friend  27:07

And do you get the opportunity to pass this on to young people? No, because it's something that, especially in these crazy COVID times, you know, people are stuck a lot of the time with the people that they're stuck with? Yeah, do you get the opportunity? Or do you take the opportunity when you can to sort of express this to people that you know, finding the right community, finding the people that support you, and, you know, love you for all your craziness. And as you say, radiate energy, is that something you are able to pass on?

27:42

I am actually starting a sort of flog on YouTube, because, you know, we're all stuck at home. So I'm actually starting something to share this knowledge while I while I'm here in my house, and other people are stuck in their house, you know, what, what can we all do to try and get through this together? But I mean, when I do these, that I haven't been doing the recently, but when I'm doing them in person, these talks, you can really feel it's often the quiet ones. And it's the ones that don't ask the questions. When you sit with the with the questions at the end, they come up to you. And they've got that twinkle in their eye that I remember having when I would watch someone that would give you data. I mean, it's not much it just gives you something to think, oh, maybe I can. Maybe I can do that. And it might not be to do with adventure at all. But it might just be everyone needs a little motivation and self belief. And everyone needs to top it up all the time. I said, I always need to talk about and things I exercising every day is a very good way to do that. And that tops tops your sort of throws away you think about yourself all the time, doesn't it? As soon as she stopped doing exercise for a day, two days or more. I mean, I feel my productivity. And my forward thinking definitely definitely goes down a

28:57

lot.

Catie Friend  28:58

Absolutely. And I I've had a while I was not sporty at all till I was nearly 40. And then I just sort of went and did some big stuff. But I it's still not it is still not part of my makeup. I find it so hard. I have to make myself exercise because I know that it's good for me. And I know that I feel better afterwards. Whereas I'm married to an exercise addict who if he doesn't do something, you know, as you say, two days without exercise, and he's like a bear with a sore head. Yeah, yeah, things like that. And also, I was listening to one of you it seems to be in a year of podcasts for you. I was listening to a podcast you did earlier in the year. And you said something that really resonated with me, which was finding out finding where you are happiest. And what makes you happiest and do more of that.

29:52

Yeah, yeah. And it doesn't have like, for me, obviously I love being in the Arctic and the jungles. Can't do that every day. How to Cook. But what is that feeling that you get from that, and it is not, it is most often a feeling of feeling proud of yourself and feeling no discontent and they're satisfied with how things are going. So if you can figure out what, you know, on a small scale, what does that for you. And then you can do that whenever you feel like you need a little bit more.

Catie Friend  30:24

A bit of I couldn't agree more, because just to sort of link back the two things that you've just said one about the the people who are listening, but don't ask questions until the end. And that feeling proud of yourself when I was about 25 or six, I heard Chris moon speaking. And I don't know if you know who he is. But he was a former British soldier who got kidnapped by the Khmer Rouge. He lost an arm and leg in a landmine explosion. And I mean, His story is just incredible. And I heard him speak. And he talked about that. And he talked about going on to complete the marathon disarmed. And just this part of me that was like, just completely speechless at the wonder and thinking and it sparked something in me at the time, I was hard working. So hard drinking, just, you know, partying and didn't really do any sports. So I kind of tucked it away. Yeah, and then something, almost 20 years later, I find myself a middle aged mother of two, running in the very first half marathon to sub, you know, in the deserts of the Canary Islands. Yeah. And finishing with that feeling of, Oh, my God, I cannot believe I managed to do that. But I can imagine. And, and I wrote at the end of my blog fight, find something that makes you feel this good. Yeah. And just keep doing it. It's the most extraordinary feeling. And I can understand why you keep searching for it. Even though there are obviously very real reasons why you do what you do. And I'm coming back to that. But it's just that that searching for that feeling

32:05

is and you can get it like I if even if you're just doing a hard running session or something up a hill, I found myself I think, just off to the Arctic when I was doing a lot of running. And I would go back to feeling like if it was hard that that run in particular, I would think, Hey, you know, you've, you've done this architect, you know, you can do this, feel proud of yourself, like, just believe in yourself. And if you can feel proud of yourself, and there's no better person to look up to. So you should always look up to yourself. And that doesn't, it doesn't matter if it's your past self. And if you're not your current self, you know, you can get back there. So to just keep keep finding that feeling, and then you can't exactly, it is addictive, it is

Catie Friend  32:51

it but I find it, I also get it if when I get up in the morning, kids are at school, and I tackle the most annoying thing of the day. Well, I don't always but on the days that I do, I think hey, check it out. And then, like 12 hours longer than I mean, I

33:12

have a saying that I first came came to learn it in the in Svalbard. And it's Don't lose your boldness. And what that sense essentially means is, as soon as you know the thought, or the word, I can't be bothered pops into your head. And that can be about anything that could be about taking the bins out or offering accountable this change the sheets or think things. As soon as it happens, it obviously is going to be a burden if you don't do it for the rest of the day. So do it straightaway. So my rule is as soon as I started, obviously can't I'm not hit superhero, I can't do it all the time. But as soon as I think you know, I can't be bothered, then I just got to rip off the bandage. And, you know, go go and do it straight away. And that makes the day or the task so much better. And on expedition it can be a life or death scenario. You know, even if it's a cannonball, all my, my crampons slightly loose, we have all this fear right now because I'm going to if I do it now then everyone will have to stop or

34:07

I won't get to catch up.

34:09

And there's this whole I mean, you must know it. There's this constant thing when you're with a team and you're not wanting to hold people back. But you. So if something happens that actually you would benefit from sorting, but it might be a bit of a faff, and it might cause a bit of strain. Just do it. Otherwise, something much worse could happen. And I'm sure lots of things that happen when things go wrong. It's always once lots of small things going wrong. Well,

Catie Friend  34:35

I do know that because I did ski mountaineering race the Petro diglossia from Zermatt to verbi a couple of years ago with two very good friends of mine and we'd been through the hole how do we react? What do we do if someone's got a problem? We wanted each other to you know, we wanted to talk about it. If someone was too hot, too cold, getting a blister you know, not feeling it, whatever it might be. We were We were we made a team decision that we would always I always listened to the other person that was having a bit of an issue and we would stop or we would help, or we would fix or whatever.

35:07

And these are the conversations that people have to have have. And they don't always they don't always have these things. And that is where things care for.

Catie Friend  35:13

And what exactly because halfway through the race, I was feeling we were all on tip top form, we'd had our ups and downs. And I was thinking, it's not as hard as everybody thinks. But I had stopped drinking water, because my CamelBak wasn't letting water out. Yeah, I assumed because it was, like three in the morning at 3000 metres, that it was frozen. And I had another little juice pack, and you know, like a little sort of energy drink thing. So I was drinking away at that. And I just kept thinking, I'll be fine. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. Yeah, it'll be fine. And four hours later, I still hadn't said anything, even though I was the teammate whose job it was to say, no, it's time to drink. Now it's time to eat. And I kept thinking, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. Because tiredness makes you stupid. Well, it makes me stupid. And it was a lesson I learned really hard way because I suddenly jiggled my pack. And actually, it had just been kinked. And there was nothing wrong with it. But by that stage, I was massively dehydrated and going as rate of a tortoise. Yeah, which affected the rest of the team. And fortunately, there also there were also lovely, they didn't hold it against me. But it was you're absolutely right, these things. You have to you just have to fix it. Yeah.

36:29

Just fix it. Just stop it and sort it out there. And then.

Catie Friend  36:33

Yeah, and I wanted sort of touch on you a little bit about the baldness, because there was also it was accompanied by a quote by David Attenborough about that, you know, I can't remember the exact quote, but it's about people won't bother, don't care about the things that they haven't seen or experienced. Yeah. And loosely, quote, and obviously, you are a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society, you're on the council, the scientific exploration society. So a couple of things come out of that for me. One is, how do you stay bothered, but not become overwhelmed? Because it's so huge. I watched David Attenborough's new film The other night, and I thought, Oh, you're doomed.

37:14

Yeah.

Catie Friend  37:15

How do you keep that bothered? I will keep the second question for after you answer this. But how do you keep that sense of urgency without thinking, I'm so overwhelmed, I can't do anything.

37:24

And I honestly think that the younger people who are coming up now, there's a lot that they mean, we should give the power to them. They give me a lot of hope. And I mean, I know we all know that the technology is there to make a greener planet. It wasn't there maybe 10 or 15 years ago, but it is now and it does just need some bit of investing. But I think people's people's minds are changing. And change is coming. And whether the government does it or whether it's people based through businesses and big companies. I'm very, I'm very optimistic about things. I know, the world seems a bit of a very shadowy grey place right now with everything that's going on. But I do think we will come out of this. And I do I mean, I think there'll be a lot of things that we will lose. And I unfortunately think that species more species will of course, be lost. And rain forests will be kept close, and they're near gone. But I think at the end of the day, we've we have to, and so we will, and I'm seeing changes every day, and it sort of fills me with joy. I mean, even going up to Scotland, last week, since last time I went, which was six months ago. So the amount of more wind turbines and things like that that have gone up. It's incredible. Like it's filled with it. And if we just keep getting it, we have to rapidly do more, of course, but I just yeah, I mean this, this world is too beautiful and to special. It's the only home we've got to not do something. So I hope that the greed and the sort of selfishness can be put aside and we can hopefully all work together as on a global scale, because that's essentially what needs to happen.

Catie Friend  39:10

What exactly and what do you bring back? So do you attach sort of investigating, I suppose is perhaps not the right word. But presumably, you know, you were away in Ghana in a place where people had never been before. Do people ask you to bring back evidence of what's there, what's not there anymore, or so on.

39:33

And so during that expedition, I was at as long as well as the journey itself. I was collecting every stream or every river water source I went by. I was taking water, water and sediment samples. And so the arrow is in a scene. It's very it's in the Kentucky mountains and it's seen as very isolated and it's protected and it's the they're very proud of the area. But because it's so high off, it's sort of you know, the Doesn't necessarily get polluted. That's what they think. I was taking water samples to look for microplastics in the water and sediment, because obviously we're finding these things up in the Arctic. And it's basically snowing. microplastics. So I mean, I because of COVID things, the research at the lab is on hold, but it will be very interesting to see what the results are and how bad it's got up there. So here, we have to find out how like whether it's just on the edges of the mountains, or whether it's got right into the into the depths of of it.

Catie Friend  40:34

And did you carry samples the whole way, then?

40:37

Yep. Yes.

40:39

No, you know, the bags got heavier. And yeah.

Catie Friend  40:42

Which is not normal on expedition. You normally get lighter food and

40:47

exactly litres and litres of water.

Catie Friend  40:50

Wow. Oh, that's amazing. Incredible. And so what is next on the agenda? Obviously, we are a little bit in hiatus for adventures. And I think you're probably very lucky. And one of the few that's been able to get away on expedition this year.

41:04

Yeah, I mean, I was actually meant to be guiding quick few Arctic expeditions. But of course, postponed and hopefully they'll go ahead next year. So that is sort of straightaway on the list, as well as I meant to be learning how to paraglide because it just makes getting off the mountain much easier. So I meant to be getting off to Spain to do that. But that might be postponed a few weeks, slash few months because of the current COVID. But the the big expedition that I'm planning is actually back to Guyana to do something else, something bigger than could take as long as three months. Sure. And so just trying to get the funding and hopefully might have recently got a little bit of a bite for that. So hopefully I can get that sorted and start planning for autumn next year.

Catie Friend  41:59

And when you say you're guiding so people can join you on some of your expeditions.

42:04

Yes, that's right. So one of my friends who is Norwegian live has a company up in Northern Norway, called touch today. And I started guiding with her last year. And we are going to be doing well. If all goes well, we'll be doing more trips across the fence market, a plateau in Norway, north south and west waste, but also in Svalbard as well. So I'm either with her or I might be on my own or with someone else. So we'll see.

Catie Friend  42:34

And that information can be found on your website.

42:37

Yep. So I mean, they can anyone can email me or there's a little join me tag, which is the expedition for Svalbard that was meant to be this year, but it will be very similar. So in the next year, and it's a very affordable, it's very, very extreme expedition, like it is very extreme. And we take novices, but we ease people in you know, we do the admin and the cooking to start with navigation, then gradually hand the reins over when we feel the team is confident enough, and we take up to eight people. And it's incredible to see the difference in in the team at the end. And I have just like we were talking about earlier, I talked to them about, you know, you're gonna get back, you feel like you're on cloud nine at the moment that you'll get back and you nothing would have changed. You know, it's only been a week or two weeks, but nothing would have changed in you know, your family would be the same. The milk might still be in the fridge or whatever, but you feel very, very, very different. And so it's sort of coaching them, you know, you might get the expedition's

43:35

blues but go back

43:36

to how you feel right now remember, you can capture this feeling and go back to it anytime you feel like that.

Catie Friend  43:41

And so anybody from any walk of life, sort of anyone reasonably fit and yet excited about doing something pretty hardcore.

43:51

Yeah, the main the main thing is enthusiasm and up for

Catie Friend  43:54

it. And then we'll take you the rest of the way. Brilliant. And so we can find out on your website, which is

44:00

at Lucy Shepherd dotnet usage Shepherd

Catie Friend  44:03

dotnet. And on Instagram,

44:05

it's Lucy ships, but also the I will be starting a proper YouTube channel in the coming weeks as well. Well, I'll be sharing tips and advice and chatting to other inventors and things like that.

Catie Friend  44:17

Brilliant. Well, I look forward to that especially as you being a filmmaker your your films are of a higher quality than some other self filmed films we've seen over the years. It's brilliant. I really, really enjoyed having a good old look at those living vicariously through you. Lucy, thank you so much for joining me honestly that it's just brilliant. I'm staring out at the flipping rain again. But thinking Oh, I just want to get out and go on an adventure. So thank you so much for joining me.

44:47

I thank you and then it's got my sort of adventure bug backup by talking about it. So yeah, I can't wait to get out again.

Catie Friend  44:54

Brilliant. Well, all the very best and we will hear more about your adventures. In the years to come, I'm absolutely sure.

45:03

Perfect. Thank you very much.